Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

[The Guz]

A few thoughts regarding how things did the past season:

Black Honda CR-V: 22ple HPC + VS1 applied April 2017.
This initially performed like I had grown accustomed to 22ple HPC performing, great self cleaning even with limited maintenance despite the fact that I sent the guy home with buckets/grit guards/Gyeon Bathe and drying towels. Always looked good right up to the point it didn’t last summer, that point being when the guys house burned down along with this vehicle.

Do you mean to tell me coatings are not fire proof?

1. Cquartz UK 3.0: Polish with Essence, 2 layers Cquartz, Reload afterwards. Anyone got any advice on using the CarPro stuff, I’m all ears…haven’t ventured much into the land of CarPro.

The coating and polish are pretty straight forward. Nothing to really say here. I still prep wipe with Essence and have had no issues doing that.

I would not even bother with Reload unless the coating is going to see rain right away.

2. Gtechniq CSL + EXOv4: Likely give the new Megs M210 a try for polish, then 1 layer CSL, 2 layers EXO

You are familiar enough with CSL. Only thing to mention is stick with 1 layer as that is all that is needed. The directions and even Gtechniq`s site mention one can apply Exo right after CSL but I am now hearing from installers that it is recommended to let CSL cure for 4-6 hours prior to applying Exo. With Exo one can reapply the second layer right after the first one is done. Essentially start at the same place you started with the first layer.

One thing with Exo V3 and I am not sure if V4 is the same, is that the coating is pushed around on the surface and requires multiple towels. You may want to use 3 towels at a time and wipe larger areas to make sure it is completely off the surface to avoid high spots.

3. 22ple VS2 Pro + 22ple VS1 Final Coat: Maybe give the newish HD One a go for polish. Want to give the highest level consumer available 22ple a try.

Nice. My Pro2 just came in with some VS1 as well. So it will be interesting to see your observations as well. I may give 3D One a go as I just got that but have not had a chance to try it out. I may use Shine Supply`s primer polish as a base as well.

4. Kamikaze Miyabi & Kamikaze Zipang + Overcoat: What, ya didn’t think I was gonna find some reason to try this, no matter how impractical for a work vehicle (albeit a new one)? Not gonna go all-in on the Zipang + Miyabi + Zipang cuz these are some pretty large vans but Miyabi topped with Zipang should give me something to work with regarding “Oops, leaned up against it with a dirty sweatshirt, let’s get some hot water and see hat happens”

Looking forward to seeing if this coating lives up to the hype. Especially with the self healing aspects.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Do you mean to tell me coatings are not fire proof?

I dunno, I did 2 coats and all but obviously shoulda upped that to 3?

The coating and polish are pretty straight forward. Nothing to really say here. I still prep wipe with Essence and have had no issues doing that.

I would not even bother with Reload unless the coating is going to see rain right away.

I thought at one point last summer there was some questions as to the wait time between layers if initial layer not done within 1 hour. These are some large vehicles so given the somewhat unhurried manner in which I apply coatings, it`ll likely take 90 minutes to do the first coat. I`m guessing getting to coats down will be a 4 hour process. Getting up on the roof of a Ford Transit Van and covering that is time consuming in and of itself. From box instructions, looks like this is a "2x2" section, apply-remove deal so that`ll slow me down a bit more. No hurry to get these things done so I figure:

1. Polish with Essence - wait 24hrs - These will be brand new vehicles so likely (hopefully) only light swirling. Think Essence with a gloss pad will take care of them adequately?

2. Eraser Wipedown, apply layer 1 (2hrs), begin back where I started and apply layer 2, wait 24 hrs.

3. Apply Reload. I know many say `skip this` but I finally need to try Reload having heard the good and the bad, I just got`s ta know!

I`m still pondering Gliss V2, but don`t know if I wanna `pollute` the UK coating itself; maybe best to just see how UK 3.0 does in it`s unadulterated state. I`m still not sure about `topcoats` of this nature; short term joy fades into long term ambivalence when it doesn`t last.

You are familiar enough with CSL. Only thing to mention is stick with 1 layer as that is all that is needed. The directions and even Gtechniq`s site mention one can apply Exo right after CSL but I am now hearing from installers that it is recommended to let CSL cure for 4-6 hours prior to applying Exo. With Exo one can reapply the second layer right after the first one is done. Essentially start at the same place you started with the first layer.

One thing with Exo V3 and I am not sure if V4 is the same, is that the coating is pushed around on the surface and requires multiple towels. You may want to use 3 towels at a time and wipe larger areas to make sure it is completely off the surface to avoid high spots.

I see the included instruction card with EXO/CSL mentions 1-12hrs between CSL and EXO so I`ll probably be somewhere in the middle of that.

Nice. My Pro2 just came in with some VS1 as well. So it will be interesting to see your observations as well. I may give 3D One a go as I just got that but have not had a chance to try it out. I may use Shine Supply`s primer polish as a base as well.

I pondered trying the Activate and Finitura w/ the Pro2 but just couldn`t stomach the added $120 for products I`m not quite sure of. Is Activate a primer polish or just a primer (likely the latter, somewhere I read it has no abrasive qualities), would Finitura be as big as a PIA as it was last time I used it? Does it even add value? 22ple, as is kinda well known, is, uh, less than forthcoming...and they never really expanded on it. Guessing you read the recent DI posts regarding the Activate and Finitura...certainly not rousing endorsements. Hoping that the Pro2 is a definite improvement over HPC as it`s just an absolutely killer product; would hate to take a step backwards.

Looking forward to seeing if this coating lives up to the hype. Especially with the self healing aspects.

I am tempering my expectations regarding Zipang. If it has the ability to self-heal the lighter stuff like towel-induced marring from lackadaisical washing techniques, that will be a win for me. Anything more is a bonus. Fortunately many of these vehicles have lotsa painted interior areas, will be applying leftover Miyab and Zipang to those areas, letting it cure for a few weeks and then scratching it to varying degrees to see what will actually heal. Will be interesting!

Just for fun gonna go post this in the Detailing 101 by Autogeek Facebook group and watch the myopic fanboys go berserk with criticism. Facebook is generally the Wild, Wild West of information but it seems that the Realm of Coatings group has some solid, serious and civilized folks in it if anyone is of a mind to check it out. They can actually have some serious and interesting discussion re: coatings without people going all `wobbly sausage` about differing opinions.

 

[SWETM]

Just awesome budgetplan! The insane amount of information you give us is so nice of you to share. Thanks a million times for shareing your experience with the coatings you apply. And the follow up with it is amazing and just a few that does that. So many interesting things you ad when you write up. And it would be an answer as long as your post to comment LOL.

Thanks again for some of the most interesting readings on your threads!

/Tony

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Just awesome budgetplan! The insane amount of information you give us is so nice of you to share. Thanks a million times for shareing your experience with the coatings you apply. And the follow up with it is amazing and just a few that does that. So many interesting things you ad when you write up. And it would be an answer as long as your post to comment LOL.

Thanks again for some of the most interesting readings on your threads!

/Tony

Apparently I must revisit some `stylistic ` issues that 7 years of undergrad work (obviously, I was in no hurry to graduate) seems to have neglected! Ah, the joys of social media!

 

[WildBill]

This thread is great and a long read but so worth it, thanks again!

What is the side effects or negative`s beside waste of product and time when applying a base coating like MOHS or UK 3.0 2 or 3 layers and then the next day applying Skin from Syncro Kit or Gliss (1 coat) and the final day adding Recharge, Cure or even Reload as a final spray on finisher? I tend to do these steps early last year and would like to know the Pro`s and Con`s of this please? And when doing this would it help to do a second top coat prior to the spray on of Gliss or Skin or is it a waste? I am just trying to put the best consumer product durability on hence why I do so many steps since I don`t want to touch the car for a long time with the exception of adding Reload etc time to time and using a SI02 carwash.

 

[JustJesus]

3. Apply Reload. I know many say `skip this` but I finally need to try Reload having heard the good and the bad, I just got`s ta know!

I like that it gets to you this way! Then we all can benefit from it.

Just for fun gonna go post this in the Detailing 101 by Autogeek Facebook group and watch the myopic fanboys go berserk with criticism.

That`s funny

Apparently I must revisit some `stylistic ` issues that 7 years of undergrad work (obviously, I was in no hurry to graduate) seems to have neglected! Ah, the joys of social media!

Some (maybe most?) people don`t seem to have patience...or attention span. The view time of my videos scares me. Even a four minute video, people only bother to see about a minute`s worth!!! Doesn`t really matter to me [that] much. My videos are geared towards the audience that can stick around and put up with my nonsense and get something from them.

Reading that guy`s comments, I can`t help but to chuckle a bit. If you did a chart, I`m quite sure there would be a fair share of people that wouldn`t understand it. Oh well, can`t satisfy everyone. In the end, that`s not what we worry about, though, is it?

 

[SWETM]

Apparently I must revisit some `stylistic ` issues that 7 years of undergrad work (obviously, I was in no hurry to graduate) seems to have neglected! Ah, the joys of social media!

Seems to be the trend to write as little as possible these days. The downside of doing that is that it gets a dry reading. So how this person thought your writing was dry I do not agree with. I like how you adress your thoughts and experience on every vehical you have applyied the coatings on. It`s gets more real world experience when you read it. Looking at chart of some kind and some words to it would be easy to look at and forget. Your way to do it is for me way more personal and interesting to read. But there will always be people with different opinions. And some that always likes to get those different opinions out. Keep it up with what you are doing is my opinion

 

[The Guz]

I dunno, I did 2 coats and all but obviously shoulda upped that to 3?

Maybe you needed 100H hardness for that.

I thought at one point last summer there was some questions as to the wait time between layers if initial layer not done within 1 hour. These are some large vehicles so given the somewhat unhurried manner in which I apply coatings, it`ll likely take 90 minutes to do the first coat. I`m guessing getting to coats down will be a 4 hour process. Getting up on the roof of a Ford Transit Van and covering that is time consuming in and of itself. From box instructions, looks like this is a "2x2" section, apply-remove deal so that`ll slow me down a bit more. No hurry to get these things done so I figure:

1. Polish with Essence - wait 24hrs - These will be brand new vehicles so likely (hopefully) only light swirling. Think Essence with a gloss pad will take care of them adequately?

2. Eraser Wipedown, apply layer 1 (2hrs), begin back where I started and apply layer 2, wait 24 hrs.

3. Apply Reload. I know many say `skip this` but I finally need to try Reload having heard the good and the bad, I just got`s ta know!

I`m still pondering Gliss V2, but don`t know if I wanna `pollute` the UK coating itself; maybe best to just see how UK 3.0 does in it`s unadulterated state. I`m still not sure about `topcoats` of this nature; short term joy fades into long term ambivalence when it doesn`t last.

The recommended wait times is 45 - 60 min between coats. If you miss this window then it is recommended to wait until the next day. You would probably be ok to coat 90 mins after with no issues because a lot of this is based on an ideal environment. You will have to see how it interacts for you after that first coat.

For Essence you don`t have to wait 24 hours. You can prep wipe it as soon as you are done and then go right ahead to coating. Some coat right over essence without any prep wipe after the paint is completely polished. Also maybe the gloss pad will be enough but hard to say without a test spot.

How about this. Coat some areas with Reload and leave the others untopped. I would suggest applying reload with a microfiber applicator unless you want to fight streaks.

You could also do the same thing as I just mentioned with Reload with Gliss just like I have on my daily driver.

I see the included instruction card with EXO/CSL mentions 1-12hrs between CSL and EXO so I`ll probably be somewhere in the middle of that.

I can`t remember but I think I waited a day or two before I finished with Exo when I was coating my Camaro over a span of free time. It seems to be doing fine. It does look really good on white.

I pondered trying the Activate and Finitura w/ the Pro2 but just couldn`t stomach the added $120 for products I`m not quite sure of. Is Activate a primer polish or just a primer (likely the latter, somewhere I read it has no abrasive qualities), would Finitura be as big as a PIA as it was last time I used it? Does it even add value? 22ple, as is kinda well known, is, uh, less than forthcoming...and they never really expanded on it. Guessing you read the recent DI posts regarding the Activate and Finitura...certainly not rousing endorsements. Hoping that the Pro2 is a definite improvement over HPC as it`s just an absolutely killer product; would hate to take a step backwards.

I read both of those articles and they were not really positive to both products. I skipped those and I still have no idea what their intended uses are based on the lack of detailed description.

I almost bought VX3 to test that out as an entry level coating but I opted not to.

I am tempering my expectations regarding Zipang. If it has the ability to self-heal the lighter stuff like towel-induced marring from lackadaisical washing techniques, that will be a win for me. Anything more is a bonus. Fortunately many of these vehicles have lotsa painted interior areas, will be applying leftover Miyab and Zipang to those areas, letting it cure for a few weeks and then scratching it to varying degrees to see what will actually heal. Will be interesting!

It will be interesting to see if the self healing ability works.

Apparently I must revisit some `stylistic ` issues that 7 years of undergrad work (obviously, I was in no hurry to graduate) seems to have neglected! Ah, the joys of social media!

There will always be people like this. Facebook is for folks with low attention spans anyway.

I still can`t believe how quick Syncro`s performance has fallen within a year. I didn`t have any success with a decon wash. Maybe you will.

This thread is great and a long read but so worth it, thanks again!

What is the side effects or negative`s beside waste of product and time when applying a base coating like MOHS or UK 3.0 2 or 3 layers and then the next day applying Skin from Syncro Kit or Gliss (1 coat) and the final day adding Recharge, Cure or even Reload as a final spray on finisher? I tend to do these steps early last year and would like to know the Pro`s and Con`s of this please? And when doing this would it help to do a second top coat prior to the spray on of Gliss or Skin or is it a waste? I am just trying to put the best consumer product durability on hence why I do so many steps since I don`t want to touch the car for a long time with the exception of adding Reload etc time to time and using a SI02 carwash.

Well with Syncro it is recommended to apply 2-3 coats of Mohs anyway so there is no issue. CarPro recommends 2 coats max. There comes a point where the coating will not bond as well just like adding many layers of wax or sealant. What is referred to as the law of diminishing returns.

Everyone thinks more layers equals more hardness but there it will come to a point where optical clarity will start to be lost with these harder base layers. Mohs seems to not harden as much as CQUK 3.0. It is also more of a hardened film compared to the quartz like resemblance from CQUK.

I would say to save that Skin and Gliss for down the road. They don`t tend to last that long. At least Skin which looks to become a dud at the 6-7 month time frame. I have not seen that with Gliss V1 which is at the 4 month mark.

My advice would be to keep it simple because the durability is not going to be better by adding more layers. But maintenance and environmental exposure are two key factors that play into durability.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Syncro update

Well, much like The Guz, Syncro has proven to be relatively short lived w/ respect to the entertaining aspects of the Skin topcoat. Unfortunately, in addition to the entertaining aspects, the very important (to me) self cleaning aspect has faded along with beading and slickness. Got a chance to look even more closely at the hood of the vehicle I applied Syncro to last Winter. Vehicle was `released into the wild` around March of 2018, 16.5K miles ago. In fairness to Syncro, the vehicle has received absolutely no aftercare since application and has likely sat outside 24/7 for nearly 95% of it`s time since application. This vehicle had 2 layers of Mohs, topped by 1 layer of Skin. I first noticed the diminished slickness, beading and self cleaning in mid-August of this summer.

First cleaned the hood with ONR and waterless wash ratio (after a quick shot with hose to remove initial dirt). While this cleaned off the surface grime it also showed some faint water spotting. Figuring `what the heck` I next cleaned it with BlackFire APC at about a 3:1 dilution but the faint water spotting remains; I`m sure it would come off with a light polish (well, pretty sure anyway) as it doesn`t appear `etched`. While I have no scientific evidence to back it up, based on my previous experience with Mohs itself, I *think* the faint water spots may be Skin related or in whatever is left of Skin. I had a vehicle I did in February 2017 with Mohs only and it got left outside 24/7, 100% of the time and I never noticed any water spotting. Mohs water behavior on it`s own was not `bead prevalent`, more sheeting (hydrophillic?) and protected the paint in a most excellent fashion despite not having the entertaining water behavior most of us enjoy.

Hopefully Gyeon will continue development of the Skin topcoat as it is one of the most entertaining I have used and the base Mohs is one tough coating with regards to chemical and environmental resistance. The initial info on Skin notes it as a Silicone Based topcoat and I`m not really familiar with any other with that base chemistry so maybe just a case of Gyeon continuing to refine Skin from it`s initial release `cuz when Skin is good, Skin is REALLY good.

Q2 Skin- is a silicone-based top coat
- designed to be used on top of Q2 Mohs
- builds a layer on top of Q2 Mohs and doesn`t react like Q2 Bead
- repellency: very hydrophobic, repels water instantly
- slickness: beyond anything else!
- resistance: full chemical resistance
- gloss: similar to Q2 Mohs+, so very, very glossy!

In any event, gonna leave the rest of the truck as is to see how it does going forward; perhaps next Spring the Skin will be completely gone at which I`ll top the remaining Mohs with CanCoat, which is a very, very nice combination IMO.

With the hood already cleaned and somewhat decon`d, figrd what the heck, dropped 2 layers of Kamikaze Overcoat on it, then a layer of Kamikaze Infinity Wax, then another layer of Kamikaze Overcoat....because "Nothing exceeds like excess". We`ll see how that combo does going forward.

After the Overcoat/Infinity Wax/Overcoat:

 

[glfnaz]

Re: Syncro update

BudgetMan, this was so fun to read! Thank you.
I`d love to see a single panel of IGL premiere to see how long it lasts without additional topping. IGL claims 6 months, but nobody has seemed to report on this. You know me, I keep applying some more every month.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Re: Syncro update

BudgetMan, this was so fun to read! Thank you.
I`d love to see a single panel of IGL premiere to see how long it lasts without additional topping. IGL claims 6 months, but nobody has seemed to report on this. You know me, I keep applying some more every month.

Yeah, that`s my problem as well. I can never just leave things alone w/ regards to testing longevity...on my own cars anyway.

I do have some Feynlab Ceramic Spray Sealant on the way, maybe I can find a hood sometime this winter and prep it and apply and see how long it lasts. Plan to clean and apply to the truck I did last Winter in Feynlab Ceramic + Topcoat and see if it improves it by any measure.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Re: Syncro update

BudgetMan, this was so fun to read! Thank you.
I`d love to see a single panel of IGL premiere to see how long it lasts without additional topping. IGL claims 6 months, but nobody has seemed to report on this. You know me, I keep applying some more every month.

I’ve got some IGL Ecocoat Premier on half of a roof that I’m watching. I decided to try a long term test on it after it passed the two week test with flying colors. It’s not as slick as it’s competitors, but makes up for it with longetivity.

 

[glfnaz]

Re: Syncro update

Thank you RLM!

 

[BudgetPlan1]

The new collection of rolling test panels has arrived...

F250 Pickup truck gonna get 22ple VX2 Pro + 22ple Finitura. It`s the top of the 22ple consumer line, their midlevel HPC has been the toughest coating I`ve used, especially in the `apply and ignore` scenario. Its a bit tougher than Kamikaze combo that I prefer but lacks the depth and complexity of Kamikaze.

The smaller Transit Connect van will get Kamikaze Miyabi + Zipang + Overcoat. Since it`s a work truck, if I happen to `accidentally` scratch/mark up an inconspicuous area, will see how the claim of `limited self healing` holds up.

One of the other Transit Van`s will get Cquartz UK 3.0 + Gliss V2 after final polish with CarPro Essence. For whatever reason, never really used much CarPro stuff, wanna see what it`s all about. Have some Reload too which I`ve never used before either.

The other Transit is getting Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light + EXO V4. Have used the CSL 2 years ago but was kinda underwhelmed so figure may as well try this combo as many say it`s the `ultimate` Gtechniq combo; we`ll see.

I`m gonna do the roofs of all the vehicles in 22ple HPC to insure I dont run outta the primary coatings...that`s a lot of area to cover.

As long as it`s `try new stuff time` I`ll be polishing with some new pads/polishes; CarPro Gloss pads with Essence, Kamikaze Finishing Pads w Kamikaze Ichiban Finishing Polish and have some of the newish 3D/HD One to give a try and some Scholl S30 and the new Megs 210 Polish too. As new vehicles, just some light polishing should be all that`s required.

Should be interesting...

 

[atgonzales]

Budget, we look forward to the final results and your great reviews

 

[SWETM]

Fun and interesting times ahead Budgetplan! Will be fun to follow your results and thoughts on the new fleet vehicals

/Tony

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Re: Syncro update

I’ve got some IGL Ecocoat Premier on half of a roof that I’m watching. I decided to try a long term test on it after it passed the two week test with flying colors. It’s not as slick as it’s competitors, but makes up for it with longetivity.

I’m going to follow up on this post here as I don’t have a long term testing thread.

IGL Ecocoat Premier is still going remarkably strong after about 8 weeks. I’m amazed. I waterless washed the roof of my test subject and the panel beaded like I had just applied Premier. It looks as if it could go another 2 months easily. This is about the only detailing product I have purchased that might live up to the manufacturers 6 month claim. The test panel hasn’t been babied either. We have had day after day of rain over the test period and it’s still holding up. This makes me want to try other IGL products.

 

[glfnaz]

Re: Syncro update

You the man. I really like this product too. Please keep up with updates.

I’m going to follow up on this post here as I don’t have a long term testing thread.

IGL Ecocoat Premier is still going remarkably strong after about 8 weeks. I’m amazed. I waterless washed the roof of my test subject and the panel beaded like I had just applied Premier. It looks as if it could go another 2 months easily. This is about the only detailing product I have purchased that might live up to the manufacturers 6 month claim. The test panel hasn’t been babied either. We have had day after day of rain over the test period and it’s still holding up. This makes me want to try other IGL products.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Have to say, if I could pick only one coating to do an entire fleet of vehicles that will see little to no maintenance, would have to coat `em all with 22ple, in this case their HPC offering.

While I`m obviously a Kamikaze fan, if I`m looking for a great fire and forget, no maintenance required product, 22ple is one tough customer. Applied to this van in March 2017, about 45k miles ago. Since application, probably run thru touchless tunnel wash (soap/rinse only) 2 or 3 times and hand washed, light clay, 22ple Finitura applied in November 2017 and just washed, applied some more Finitura and VS1 Final Coat this week and it`s good to go for another season methinks. Sits outside pretty much it`s whole life. Had some tar on rocker panels, which came off easily with a wipe with Gyeon Tar but aside from that, just keeps on truckin`

Good stuff...truck is always shiny and glossy (well, aside from winter where nothing can help)

 

[Justins00ss]

Re: Syncro update

I’m going to follow up on this post here as I don’t have a long term testing thread.

IGL Ecocoat Premier is still going remarkably strong after about 8 weeks. I’m amazed. I waterless washed the roof of my test subject and the panel beaded like I had just applied Premier. It looks as if it could go another 2 months easily. This is about the only detailing product I have purchased that might live up to the manufacturers 6 month claim. The test panel hasn’t been babied either. We have had day after day of rain over the test period and it’s still holding up. This makes me want to try other IGL products.

Glad to hear that your expectations have been met. Premier is a legitimate sealant/coating topper. If I`m not coating a car then chances are it`s getting premier.