Maybe temper my expectations on ceramic coatings and pressure washers?

B

beanbag

New member
Hello folks,

About 2 weeks ago, I got a new car. Last Saturday, I washed the car and went over it twice with Gyeon Prep to clean off the surface. I assumed that a new car won`t come with any wax, maybe only quick detailer spray, so that`s why I used the Gyeon Prep. I also tried some isopropyl alcohol and Meguiar`s Medallion Paint Cleaner in a small spot, and it didn`t make much difference in feel or water surface tension. Then applied Dr Beasley`s Plasma coat (ceramic).
On Sunday, I went on a recreational drive in the rain. Today (Monday) I went to wash the car.

OK, so a couple of issues and questions:

1) Most of the surfaces like hood, roof, upper part of panels are fine (beads water), but the door panels have the usual dried-on dirt and waterspots from road spray. I thought ceramic coatings were supposed to be so hydrophobic that this stuff bounced right off?

2) Then I sprayed it with a garden hose with the trigger nozzle. That thin film of dried-on dirt and waterspots still didn`t come off. Then I used a newly-acquired 1600 psi pressure washer and sprayed (not too close) and it still didn`t come off. Is this expected even for cars with the ceramic coating?

3) I also sprayed at the wheels to get the brake dust off. But even if I got the pressure washer kind of close, it didn`t clean off the brake dust. Yet I could easily wipe it off with my finger. I don`t get it - how is it that a powerful blast of water (too strong to stick my finger into) can`t even match a light wipe with the finger? Is "mechanical agitation" that great? Or is a pressure washer that wimpy?

4) Then I tried my usual wash, which is folded microfiber towel and soapy water. Just a light swipe was able to get the film of dirt and waterspots off the door panels. Upon rinsing, I noticed that the upper part of the door panels that didn`t have the film still beaded. The lower parts that once had the film, the water very slowly sheeted off in a very thin layer, and the film of water stuck around for a long time. Basically not hydrophobic anymore. Did the coating give out already? Does the film from road spray affect the surface that much?

5) Anyway, it seems like my dream of having a touch-less car wash is in trouble. Would it have helped if I used some soap / foam solution in the pressure washer? (It can spray high pressure water and low pressure detergent mix)

6) What`s a good, touch-less way to clean wheels? I don`t like cleaning with a cloth or mitt because there are a lot of spokes and therefore corners, and my fingers always get banged up trying to clean them out. I have a bristle brush with frayed ends, but that easily misses spots.

OK Thanks
 
beanbag- Gee, I can understand your disappointment, that sounds frustrating.

I doubt your pressurewasher is too wimpy since my *really* weak/cheap one cleans my FK1000Ped vehicles just great and is even sorta-OK on the OCW`ed A8. My LSPed and Gloss)coated wheels clean up fine that way too, I only need to spend a little time with the BHBs/mitts/swabs, not much at all.

I just run plain water through mine, and that`s often enough to clean things just fine (then I blow dry, no touching unless I do a Real Wash).

I can`t imagine really doing a proper job on the wheels without the touching. Just too much to ask IMO. And yeah...I do know ;) ...the BBS wheels on the `93 Audi take me a lot longer than many people spend on the whole wash. If I didn`t like them so much I`d replace them over that, as I have MANY sets of wheels over the years..how much does the car *NEED* those high-maintenance wheels? I gotta have `em on that car, but that`s just me.

You might want to look into the Cleaning Gun that Lonn sells. Compressor-powered, siphon-feed. I *still* haven`t tried mine yet, but it might help you do the touchless thing (that`s my plan, we`ll see).
 
I think you`re expectations were a little to high for the coating.

Coated surfaces will not come clean with a simple spray from a power washer. You will need to gently wash the car in order to remove any dirt and grime off of the panels and wheels. Lower door areas do accumulate grime more and I`ve found they need a little more effort to restore the water properties seen when the coating is fresh. Typically though, I only have this problem after a long winter. A good hand wash or two seems to restore the beading effects we all love. I`ve also seen the water not sheet/bead well immediately after a wash, but an hour or two later everything is behaving normally again.
 
beanbag said:
3) I also sprayed at the wheels to get the brake dust off. But even if I got the pressure washer kind of close, it didn`t clean off the brake dust. Yet I could easily wipe it off with my finger. I don`t get it - how is it that a powerful blast of water (too strong to stick my finger into) can`t even match a light wipe with the finger? Is "mechanical agitation" that great? Or is a pressure washer that wimpy?
Click to expand...

Coating your wheels (pull `em, coat inner barrels and faces) with Gyeon Rim or similar helps significantly in this area.
 
As far as wheels go I think Meguiar`s Ultimate Wheel Cleaner is supposed to be almost touchless (have not tried it myself). Meg`s Wheel Brightener or Poorboy`s Spray and Rinse should also be touchless but those come with safety and finish warnings.

I wish you could still get opti-coat for wheels, I missed out on that one.
 
Oh yes the ad copy and marketing to make you think nothing will stick to coatings.

As you found out seemingly the same stuff that would stick with wax or a sealant or even nothing at all will still stick to a coating.

Maybe just maybe some coatings make it easier to clean. Offer that for a longer duration too.

Road film and contamination happens I would guess nearly everytime you drive the car. Rain makes it worse. Snow makes it worse it seems to activate those contaminates to make them stick even better.

No experience with that coating. Most don’t want you to wash them for a week give or take.

Now the wheels if they are factory wheels in good shape and not some sort of un coated polished aluminum wheel you could use an acid based wheel cleaner following the directions of that product to clean the wheels as no touch as you can get.

I still have hopes for a product that can do what you want for paint but I haven’t found it. Seems if anyone claims theirs does it, they must have 1 on a 10 scale of contamination they see. Cause they never seem to work for me. I haven’t tried them all but our cars seem to get filthy no matter if I use a coating. A wax or a sealant so they all need to be scrubbed and cleaned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MattPersman said:
Oh yes the ad copy and marketing to make you think nothing will stick to coatings.
Click to expand...

IMO, that`s one of the biggest issues with the marketing of products like this; unrealistic claims, usually based on the most ideal situations the copywriter can think of. I could likely take one of the poorest performing coatings out there, apply it to a car that sits in the garage 99% of the time, only coming out on sunny Sundays to drive up to the local Hooters car meet, and that coating will likely outlast the most outlandish claims of the more popular products.

When reading longevity claims (which I think should be mileage based as opposed to "X number of years"), I`ll generally divide by 2 if it`s not a show car situation; kinda gets closer to reality it seems. Perhaps not coincidentally, some of the all-around best products (for me) in this space that I have used are those with the least (if any) marketing behind them. It took a whole lotta digging to find the specifics on my top 2 favorites, things like hardness, water contact angle and such, items which are usually boldly trumpeted by many brands. When I was looking for a new product to play with and someone suggested something that was not a well noted brand, if I checked the companies marketing/product descriptions found they were sensationalist (in my mind), I usually dismissed them rather quickly

MattPersman said:
Maybe just maybe some coatings make it easier to clean. Offer that for a longer duration too.
Click to expand...

Self-cleaning abilities are among my top considerations when deciding what`s best for me. While I never ran into any truly bad products, some did excel in this specific area, making them top choices for me as long as appearance met my needs as well. Some people like a hard, candy gloss, others a more muted, deep glow....just had to find what appeals to me specifically.

MattPersman said:
Road film and contamination happens I would guess nearly everytime you drive the car. Rain makes it worse. Snow makes it worse it seems to activate those contaminates to make them stick even better.
Click to expand...

Yep, pretty much. Nothing is bulletproof nor will anything make your car able to be truly clean and pure without some kinda physical contact, i.e. a bucket/rinseless or similar wash. It`s a nasty, harsh world out there, especially if you live in a northern climate. Although our cars are coated and will likely need no major attention when Spring does finally come, the `decontamination wash` certainly has it`s merits and will be done. Gave this kinda a trial run on an unusually warm day last February on my coated daily driver. Initial rinse with pressure washer showed diminished water behavior on vertical panels of car, likely from buildup of salt, brine, chemical de-icers and general winter grim. Foam then bucket wash helped it bit but it took an application of Gyeon Tar (with a bit of agitation) to bring side panels back to life with respect to water behavior/beading/sheeting. 80 miles a day in NE Ohio winter on 4 of the most heavily traveled highways in the area is gonna take a toll; fortunately it appears that the coating survived quite well, just buried in grime that takes some `extra` attention once a year (in my case anyway).

Oddly (or alarmingly) I think coatings are ideally suited for fleet vehicles, where nose-to-paint cleanliness isn`t the primary goal but rather "looks freshly washed from 5 feet" is what you`re after. Many of the coatings I tried were on our fleet vehicles at work (hey, gotta use what`s available to you) and these were/are vehicles that had coating applied, were released into the wild in March/April and then received pretty much no maintenance until 20-25k miles later in November (pool service company); perhaps a touchless tunnel wash (soap/rinse only) once or twice a summer but aside from that, just getting rained on. Compared to the fleet vehicles that weren`t coated, the coated vehicles *always* looked 75% cleaner and pretty much always fresh. It really showed the differences in the self cleaning abilities of different products as well but even the coatings that didn`t perform as well in that area still stayed much better looking than uncoated vehicles.

Coatings are no doubt a "low maintenance" solution if you`re willing to accept the trade-offs but are by no means a fire and forget proposition if you`re extremely OCD-ish; they still need attention in that case but I`ve found it to be much less than a wax or sealant, providing you happen upon the one that best addresses your primary concerns.

As always, YMMV and I`m certainly no professional when it comes to this stuff but rather just calling `em like I see `em regarding their performance in my climate.
 
Coatings certainly help in keeping a car cleaner, but there are some really solid sealants that will give them a run for their money. I`ve done some side by sides and there really is a difference, but it isn`t night and day. A car still gets dirty, especially if you drive it in the rain.
 
I`m with Scott Harle above -- Post # 5
For sure, no coating will be fully cured in a week of bad weather with nothing else (IR lights, etc.,) to help speed up the cure process..

I`m not even sure of what your prep work was.... It doesn`t sound like you claybar`d the car, used any type of paint correction, and perhaps wiped it down with something that wasn`t good either..

I have no experience with Dr. Beasly, but have lots of experience with Optimum from the first Opti-Guard, 2.0, to today..

All I can tell you from my personal experiences on all my personal vehicles so coated is that they DID shed dirt really well for a couple of years or more, and then still shed pretty good for around 4 years..

There was absolutely no touch-up, ad-nauseum, needed with Optimum, and all I ever washed it with was a good car wash soap with no additives, until CarPro invented Reset Soap which really worked well to clean the coatings up and they actually came back to life again, but not as strong as the first 2 years..

In 2016, I believe, I took off all the original Opti-Guard with Optimum Finish Polish using Lake Country Hydro-Shred Tangerine pads and a Rotary, wiped it all down with CarPro Eraser a few times, and applied OptiCoat 2.0, an old syringe I had saved from way back..

I made my yearly 4,000 mile drive (round trip) from Northern California to Texas and when I got to San Antonio, my Black Jeep wasn`t even very dirty from that trip..

And now its 2018, and I just went through a rainstorm, and my Grand Cherokee dries very clean with very little sticking to the sides...
Dan F
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top