Winter Wheels

[MattPersman]

Yeah Tpms can be a bummer our Odyssey I️ just change over the tires cause it uses sensors. Not a big deal since I️ work at a shop with a changer and balancer.

The accord we got apparently uses the abs style so no sensors were needed.

Years past on previous vehicles I️ just ran with the light on all winter.

I️ figure if I️ can prevent a big winter by buying a set of winters then I’ll do it.

Kinda like the year you buy that new snow blower and you get a couple 1-2 inch snows. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dan]

Don`t forget a genrator to that list!

It`s nice that you can mount your own tires. I dread getting it done, even though I have a shop that is competant, I still worry about getting scratches.

 

[Lonnie]

I`m tempting fate this year and not running winter tires. The back set of Blizzaks are too crusty and I don`t feel like buying new ones. I live just west of DC so there isn`t much snow, and TBH, you really are better off not driving around here when the roads are bad. We have a lot of cultural diverisity here and a complete lack of understanding by some folks as to what happens to roads. Mix in the goons that think they are invincable in their brand new SUV, and its just a better idea to wait 2-3 days before venturing out after a big snow fall. Thankfully my job is flexible as far as work location.

Ain`t that the truth!!! Winter weather driving is a real skill that takes experience to master and, as you state, understand vehicle dynamics and handling. Unfortunately, this is done on-the-fly on the real world roads and streets and not in some empty parking lot. I am not advocating that "nubies" try hand-brake turns in the snow, but at least try turning and braking with their vehicle to "get the feel of it" before venturing out onto the snow-covered road if they`ve never driven in these conditions. One thing I will say is that anti-lock brakes are both a blessing and a curse. Blessing because even a neophyte can stop a vehicle without losing control in slippery conditions. Curse because the same neophyte THINKS they can stop in the same distance as on a dry road or they let off the brake pedal, thinking something is wrong with a pulsing pedal underfoot, rather than just stomping their foot on the pedal. In deep snow, you can actually stop shorter if you feather the pedal just before lock-up rather than locking up the pedal and letting the anti-lock do its thing, but very few drivers are aware of that. On ice, anti-locks win hands-down and for 99.9% of the drivers its a godsend. Before anti-locks you has to pump-and-release in rapid succession on a brake pedal and it was a real skill to master and determine how far it would take to stop under what conditions. I still try this with anti-locks on streets or roads, depending on the current winter weather conditions just to see how much distance it requires for that particular weather. Sometimes it`s a real shock when what you THINK will be the stopping distance and find out what it really is by this method. It at least gives you a better feel on how fast you can drive and what distance you can allow to follow behind another vehicle. I am also the "jerk driver" who will feign a quick stop if I have determined another driver is too close behind me just so they "understand" how really slippery winter road conditions are. I`d rather have that driver "flip me off" than run into me

 

[Accumulator]

Eh, too many people think of it as a "right to drive"...in their (incorrect) opinions they don`t need real driver`s training, they don`t need anything they can`t afford, but hey they DO need to drive and the rest of us are supposed to just...uhm...watch out. Meanwhile viable public transportation runs around at half-capacity and nobody walks anywhere.

Lonnie- Be careful with those brakechecks, if they hit you it could drag on longer than you`d expect (not always just an "assured clear distance" thing) and a whole lotta people will do more than just flip you off; we just had another shooting in our area over something trivial like that (and we live in an *very* low-crime/violence area).

If you just CAN`T RESIST, try just turning on your headlights, many [dummies] mistake them for brakelights even in these days of HCMBLs (think that`s the abbreviation). But be ready for a violent response...even if it`s only taken out on your vehicle, and remember that you can`t legally [injure] somebody for messing with your vehicle.

Oh gee, don`t I sound like a [paranoid jerk] again... ...but it`s based on first-hand experience with people who don`t, uhm...follow the rules.

 

[Surly]

I still try this with anti-locks on streets or roads, depending on the current winter weather conditions just to see how much distance it requires for that particular weather. Sometimes it`s a real shock when what you THINK will be the stopping distance and find out what it really is by this method. It at least gives you a better feel on how fast you can drive and what distance you can allow to follow behind another vehicle.

Whenever there`s anything of substance on the road, or if I move from one "traction area" into another, like different road treatment from area to area, I`m always checking where the limit is, usually with either pedal. It`s also how I figure out how a particular model of winter tire handles various conditions.

 

[Surly]

As to the TPMS hate, I concur on some fronts, but I really do like the VW implementation on the lower end cars, it uses the ABS sensors to calculate wheels speed vs actual air pressure, it works quite well, however it doesn`t tell you which tire is low, for that you have to rely on your $5 Milton.

BMW has been doing this for many, many years. On the US models they do full TPMS now, because of the Ford thing I assume. In Canada we`ve just got the wheel speed sensor thing.

In some ways, I like the idea (but not the expense) of full TPMS. In the US you can bring up a screen that shows real time pressure and temperature of all four corners as you drive.

 

[Surly]

OK - so I know that this is a winter wheel thread, but we did spend a few sentences talking about the Hakkapeliitta R2s I chose and most of us are probably "car guys" anyways.

So, in the dry and above freezing they are predictably squirmy. As with my Hakka RSis years ago, control inputs seems to generate a `rrrrrrrrrrr` sound before generating a handling response. They`re better than the RSis were, though. They make a slight whine or wrrrrr at speed on dry pavement, but they`re quieter than the summers I took off so far. Critically, they do not suffer from the dangerous warm/wet loss of traction my RSis did - thank heaven for that. In light/typical braking, they do seem to instill a bit of a "rumble", I don`t know how else to describe it. It`s like a "gritty" feel in the steering wheel while the brakes are applied in a certain range - goes away with lighter or heavier braking. My RSis did not do that. I can live with it, but I noticed it.

In the cold/dry (e.g. -10C or lower), just like the RSis they firm up nicely and come into their own. I expect that, just like the RSis, they will feel like summer ultra-high performance rubber in -15C and colder in the dry. The challenge has always been that Toronto-area winters aren`t like that, and when we get snow it`s usually hovering around freezing or going above and below with rain and freezing rain.

When I told a co-worker that I went "full winter" (e.g. Hakka R2) instead of "performance winter" (e.g. Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4) I got "What did you do that for?? Do you want to hate your car 4-5 months a year?". If we had another open winter I would agree with him. We`ve been dumped on twice so far, including overnight last night.

In the winter conditions I`ve had so far - slush, packed snow, salted snow "dough", standing water, a few inches of virgin snow, snow packed and polished to ice - these tires are absolutely outstanding. My current vehicle (F10 chassis BMW 535xi AWD) did better than I expected on my previous performance winter tires (Dunlop WinterSport 3D) although which there were some weaknesses observed. These winter tires have kicked it up a big notch. Of course as with just about any winter tires I`ve had my share of all season bearers sliding right past me with all four wheels locked, minivans unable to even get moving, FWD cars fishtailing around me while I`m experiencing pretty much nothing. But even compared to other winter-tire shod cars these have the advantage. They are so good, I can even forget I`m driving in winter conditions. I`ve even stepped up the `aggression` (no one else around) and this package just "does it" and it never seems any worse than driving on a gravel road.

Well done, Nokian.

I`ll have to report in on how the wheel coating works out later

2011 BMW 535xi
18"x8J style 237 factory wheels w/ Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 245/45R18

 

[Accumulator]

Surly- Glad you like them, funny about that weird feel under braking but I`m glad you can live with it.

... I got "What did you do that for?? Do you want to hate your car 4-5 months a year?"...

[sarcasm]Oh gee, how could you possibly like your car with snowtires on it?!?[/sarcasm]

 

[MattPersman]

Thanks surly each time I’m due for new winters I look to Nokians but after I search for a couple days on the latest other tires that rank well I always end up finding ones that will be workable for much cheaper. My wallet ultimately talks for them.

One of these days. But we just don’t get the consistent winter that wants me to spend the extra. But it always leaves me wondering how much better they are


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Surly]

Yes, it`s me, checking into the "winter wheels" thread to post a follow up on my tires. Since the discussion went there, I figure it`s still the best place to add to the conversation.

In real winter weather, the Hakkapeliitta R2s were dominant. Starting Christmas Eve we were hit with storms, cold, heavy accumulating snow, snow clearing crews off for Christmas break etc.... The R2s probably paid for themselves in a 3 week span. They were so dominant compared to everything else on the road it was immediately evident. In places where my gut thought I might have trouble stopping or accelerating - no issue. In crazy snow depth, both virgin and salted (the cookie dough stuff that everything seems to float on) control was absolute. The only thing I didn`t venture through was a plow pile that came up to my side mirrors. Even in tricky winter conditions I could launch, not just make my way around. I started to look forward to snowfalls. Unlike with my Dunlop Wintersport 3D, there is no huge discrepancy between acceleration grip and braking grip (yet anyways).

Slush planing in the sloppy stuff was also superior to anything else I can remember driving in the past.

As with my Hakka RSis, when it gets really cold and dry they firm up and feel like UHP summer tires (in the summer). In most other weather in the dry they`re a little sloppy and make grippy ripping noises. They seem to absorb a lot of control input (brake, throttle, steering) but don`t break free.

We haven`t had much in the way of snow since Valentine`s Day (strangely) and its been mostly dry and bouncing from -5C to +5C. I`m ready to get off of them, but it`s not quite UHP weather here either.

I see that Nokian released the Hakkapeliitta R3 in January - figures. You`re welcome everyone LOL.

The R2s are not "performance" snow tires but if you have real winter conditions they are truly something special.

 

[Accumulator]

Surly- Thanks for posting about the Hakkapeliittas, they sound impressive in the snow. How are they on ice?

 

[Surly]

Surly- Thanks for posting about the Hakkapeliittas, they sound impressive in the snow. How are they on ice?

Actually - I didn`t encounter a lot of icy conditions this winter. I did encounter the usual "packed snow polished to ice" at stop signs - no problem, didn`t even notice. I also drove in some pretty serious freezing rain - didn`t notice. I don`t believe I was out driving after a flash freeze or similar this year though (yet).

And when I say "didn`t notice", I`m not claiming that the performance is like the dry or anything. I could always play with the brakes and find the limits pretty easily. What I mean is that in fairly regular driving there was no need to "tippy toe" around and I still had reserves of braking, acceleration and cornering beyond what I needed.

 

[Accumulator]

Surly- Ah, OK, thanks for the additional info. One of these days I`ll need to replace the Blizzaks, and while I`ll probably just get their new versions I want to be as informed a consumer as possible

 

[MattPersman]

I’ll tell you I have never had Nokians of any range but anytime I get blizzaks they are so good even though other newer tires may test a hair better in testing they seem to never let you down

Ws80s on our Odyssey


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Accumulator]

To show how old mine are, the newest ones are still WS50s

 

[Coleroad]

Nokian`s are just so much harder to find in stock, in the U.S. . They are all over the place in Canada, and Europe.

 

[Accumulator]

Nokian`s are just so much harder to find in stock, in the U.S.

Ah, that`s a factor for me...I`m *not* doing a certain (otherwise wonderful) wheel/tire setup on the Crown Vic because of the "what if I need a replacement *now* in the middle of nowhere?"