What coating to try next...

Crooz1n said:
Is the 22ple HPC good enough to be twice the cost of Cquartz or CSL?
Click to expand...

It`s all very subjective (and I don`t have any long-term durability of either) but in my opinion, taking into account final appearance, self cleaning and ease of application....yes, it is. However, this is a very personal opinion based upon whether one likes a hard, candy kinda look or a softer, warmer glow kinda look. Additionally, I may apply coatings with different motions, pressures, applicator amounts, etc, etc, etc...which would likely play into whether it`s `worth it` or not.

In light of this, and with the above experiences in mind, 22plc is my favorite of this group because:

1. I`m pretty much never worried about leaving a high spot with HPC; it`s kinda unique in it`s application characteristics due to it`s chemical makeup (i`d guess that`s the reason). I`ve varyied times between application and removal, ranging from 1 minute up to about 7 or 8 minutes and it always removes/buffs off the same: very easily and only needing very, very light pressure (if you can even call it that) when removing. And no streaking.

2. It is the glossiest of the above group of coatings, a harder kinda gloss as opposed to a warmer glow.

3. It`s slick from the get-go.

4. Of the above coatings, which have now been on daily-driven fleet vehicles for a while now, it has remained THE cleanest by far with me having done absolutely NO upkeep whatsoever.

Bear in mind this is based on my experiences with the product; have read about at least one incident where someone did not even get through a small 4-door car with a 30ml bottle. A 30ml bottle for me nearly made it through 2 coats on an extended Ford Transit panel van (except for the roof)...a lot of painted area. I just did a newer Honda CR-V and 30ml made it easily through 2 coats.

Whether that`s worth twice the price of some others is very hard to quantify but for me, it is. Should someone ask me to correct/coat their car, I would only do it if they were willing to pony up the $$ for HPC (after all the money I spent in this thread, can`t really see footing the bill any more) because I know it will be easy to apply and turn out great (sometimes despite my best efforts to screw it up) as long as surface is correctly prepped/polished. For the way I apply coatings (whatever way that is in comparison to others) 22ple HPC is nearly mindless in application, looks great and stays clean. For more skilled people the application issue might be irrelevant; although all the coatings in this thread gave me no issues, the HPC was *so* easy to apply that it stands out to me in that area.

Is it worth it to you? Only one way to find out...

A final note: The above does not make it my `favorite` coating...Kamikaze Miyabi + ISM still holds that position due to proven looks, longevity and self cleaning characteristics (although it does require a bit more attention to detail when using the ISM)...but if HPC holds up in a similar manner (long term), it will be nipping at its heels.
 
Thanks for the great answer. I only work on my own cars and just recently did my 93 Corvette with Cquartz Classic. I bought a second bottle to do my 03 but wondered if HPC is better. was considering CSl and ExoV3 but now we are doing 2 products and it kinda defeats the purpose. Now i know that you think HPC is overall better from your vast experience.
I like that you have a whole array of vehicles to try these coating on. It makes for some nice comparisons and a great read.
Thank you again for the efforts. Please continue to update as you see fit.
 
Last edited:
Just a quick update on Gyeon Mohs, happened to walk by vehicle in warehouse and thought `Hey, that looks pretty good."

Applied 2 coats on Feb. 20th I believe, maint. since then has been nothing except being rained on. Bird bomb on hood that I`m gonna leave there for a week or so to see if it etches.
bb5a5dc7c08e0e0585709b47f911b4c4.jpg
1a1f848b10249567c5399bedc1cc2f87.jpg
 
Been reading about these coatings - thinking about what to try next. I`ve played with several (PA, Cquartz, McKees, Duragloss, a few others).

I don`t quite get the Kamikaze Miyabi + ISM combo. Why a coating over a coating. Aren`t coatings designed to adhere to paint and not each other? Most coating manufactures will tell you that a 2nd coat is for piece of mind of complete coverage and that it`s generally unnecessary. What`s the story with ISM? If the ISM finish is preferred, why not just use that?
 
RippyD said:
Been reading about these coatings - thinking about what to try next. I`ve played with several (PA, Cquartz, McKees, Duragloss, a few others).

I don`t quite get the Kamikaze Miyabi + ISM combo. Why a coating over a coating. Aren`t coatings designed to adhere to paint and not each other? Most coating manufactures will tell you that a 2nd coat is for piece of mind of complete coverage and that it`s generally unnecessary. What`s the story with ISM? If the ISM finish is preferred, why not just use that?
Click to expand...
Maybe this will explain it? Dunno if they mention the why of combining though.
https://youtu.be/T08GLf2XkyY

Contact Esoteric and they can explain...dunno the chemistry but the stuff works. Many pro coatings are 2 part so maybe same kinda thing?
 
Got it. Watched the vid. Seems that Miyabi coating is designed to be layered. Doubt I would commit to both, but could see trying ISM. I don`t doubt the product is good [typo fixed].

Not crazy about the vanity/upscale packaging. I have a similar reaction to Polish Angel products. I`d rather have it in a plastic bottle with a white sticker and have it cost less.
 
RippyD said:
Why a coating over a coating. Aren`t coatings designed to adhere to paint and not each other? Most coating manufactures will tell you that a 2nd coat is for piece of mind of complete coverage and that it`s generally unnecessary.
Click to expand...

I can`t speak for ISM on top of Myabi but I do have some experience with topping GTECH CSL with EXOv2 and CSL with EXOv3 and also have a test going of CSL vs EXOv2 vs CSL+EXOv2 that has opened my mind up to the idea of layering one manufacturers coating on top of another

This is by far not a scientific explanation but all I can say is that when you top CSL wit EXO it really puts the EXO on performance enhancers...I`m guessing because the surface has the other coating under it and so its a more perfectly smooth surface and when you put the EXO on there, none of the EXO is absorbing (?) into anything so its just able to really work, and work really well. Now I even do two layers of EXO on top of the CSL , but also have done one layer of EXO on top of CSL

not sure if that helps any but I can definitely say when you put those two GTECH coatings together its some form of molecular and scientific witchcraft
 
BudgetPlan1 said:
Maybe this will explain it? Dunno if they mention the why of combining though.
https://youtu.be/T08GLf2XkyY

Contact Esoteric and they can explain...dunno the chemistry but the stuff works. Many pro coatings are 2 part so maybe same kinda thing?
Click to expand...
After talking with Kai and seeing your results and Esoteric. I`ll be coating my SP Challenger in the weeks to come with Kamikaze ISM and Infinity Wax. After I strip the existing sealant off and correction.
 
HCF said:
After talking with Kai and seeing your results and Esoteric. I`ll be coating my SP Challenger in the weeks to come with Kamikaze ISM and Infinity Wax. After I strip the existing sealant off and correction.
Click to expand...
I will say that Infinity on top seems more of a `beader` and ISM/Overcoat is more of a `sheeter` so the self-cleaning abilities of having Infinity on top (with its carnauba content perhaps?) are slightly diminished vs ISM/Overcoat.

I put recently put Overcoat over Infinity to have its self cleaning character on top while not diminishing the little extra `something` Infinity lends to ISM with regards to appearance. Time will tell but I`m hoping for some rain later this week to see how it does (yes..*hoping* for rain...likely kinda unusual around Autopia-ville)

These are daily drivers for the most part and it`s been excessively dirty (dust, pollen) around NE Ohio lately so that addition helps keep it somewhat tolerable without much effort.

Then again, it`s all so subjective that it all might be in my head. Ya stare and stare at it and finally something pops that is newly pleasing to the eye...or so you think.
 
512detail said:
I can`t speak for ISM on top of Myabi but I do have some experience with topping GTECH CSL with EXOv2 and CSL with EXOv3 and also have a test going of CSL vs EXOv2 vs CSL+EXOv2 that has opened my mind up to the idea of layering one manufacturers coating on top of another

This is by far not a scientific explanation but all I can say is that when you top CSL wit EXO it really puts the EXO on performance enhancers...I`m guessing because the surface has the other coating under it and so its a more perfectly smooth surface and when you put the EXO on there, none of the EXO is absorbing (?) into anything so its just able to really work, and work really well.
Click to expand...
I can`t challenge what you`re seeing since you`re seeing it and I`m not, but I`m skeptical based on the (very) little I understand about how coatings work. They`re designed to bong with paint, not with each other. So I don`t understand how a 2nd coating could have much permanence except where the first coating missed some spots. Layering coatings and expecting better performance is counter to what most of the better-known coating manufactures tell us about how their coatings work.

It could be I`m an idiot and missing something obvious and/or fundamental. It could be these coatings are different.
 
RippyD said:
I can`t challenge what you`re seeing since you`re seeing it and I`m not, but I`m skeptical based on the (very) little I understand about how coatings work. They`re designed to bong with paint, not with each other. So I don`t understand how a 2nd coating could have much permanence except where the first coating missed some spots. Layering coatings and expecting better performance is counter to what most of the better-known coating manufactures tell us about how their coatings work.

It could be I`m an idiot and missing something obvious and/or fundamental. It could be these coatings are different.
Click to expand...

As it was explained to me (in the case of Gyeon Prime/Mohs and Booster by the Gyeon USA Rep) the Booster isn`t so much an additional layer (although technically it is) as it is a complimentary catalyst that provides and additional (generally a specifically desired effect) on top of the base coatings protective offerings. In the case of Gyeon Booster, this is why its application is recommended within a certain time-frame of the base coating (1000 miles in this case) as the reaction with the base needs to occur before base coat full curing.

Most of the Gyeon/Kamikaze pro-only offerings (Gyeon Durabead and MOHS+ and Kamikaze Enrei) are two part systems with likely a base and surface `enhancer` (i`d guess). Pearl Nano is also a two part system with a base and top coat. I`d have to (or like to) believe that in coating `systems` like these, the engineering has been done to assure synergy and proper interaction between the disparate products.

Coatings can also have different appearance/feel and hydrophobic characteristics. Kamikaze Miyabi gives a harder, candy coated look, while the addition of ISM builds on the hard, Miyabi base coat but adds more significant hydrophobic behavior to the Miyabi as well as providing a deeper, softer, warmer `carnauba` like glow to the surface. When I topped that with Infinity Wax, it enhanced the appearance in a very subtle but pleasing way, adding a bit more candy look to the paint, kinda an in-between of Miyabi and ISM, but diminished the water sheeting just a touch. Adding Overcoat to it returned the radical water behavior while not diminishing the appearance built up the the 3 similar but distinct products.

Heck, I dunno...ain`t no chemist but i can say the addition of each layer changed appearance and behavior a bit but the end result has proven to be rock solid. This whole mixing and matching of products within a `collection` and the subtle differences in looks and performance is what fascinates me with the coatings...and leads me to spend stupid $$ seeing how they can all work, either together or stand-alone. Which isn`t to say I have the slightest `real` understanding of the specifics; I could just be a `sucker born every minute`, marketers dream buying into unrealistic claims. But in the case of Kami Miyabi + ISM, that stuff laughed at the NE Ohio winter on a daily driver and helps protect it from my ham-handed washing techniques.
 
RippyD said:
I can`t challenge what you`re seeing since you`re seeing it and I`m not, but I`m skeptical based on the (very) little I understand about how coatings work. They`re designed to bong with paint, not with each other. So I don`t understand how a 2nd coating could have much permanence except where the first coating missed some spots. Layering coatings and expecting better performance is counter to what most of the better-known coating manufactures tell us about how their coatings work.

It could be I`m an idiot and missing something obvious and/or fundamental. It could be these coatings are different.
Click to expand...

I get what you`re saying and like I said I have no specific reasoning as to why it works but I am one of those have to see for myself kind of guys so I started a thread when I started this experiment, the differences are interesting and the thread is now at 10 months longevity and after I post my next update I think there will be some interesting discussion.... here`s the thread in case you want to see for yourself, I`ve tried my best to keep it going for the sake of knowledge at least

https://www.autopia.org/forums/deta...-exo-longevity-test.html?highlight=holy+sheet
 
BudgetPlan1 said:
I will say that Infinity on top seems more of a `beader` and ISM/Overcoat is more of a `sheeter` so the self-cleaning abilities of having Infinity on top (with its carnauba content perhaps?) are slightly diminished vs ISM/Overcoat.

I put recently put Overcoat over Infinity to have its self cleaning character on top while not diminishing the little extra `something` Infinity lends to ISM with regards to appearance. Time will tell but I`m hoping for some rain later this week to see how it does (yes..*hoping* for rain...likely kinda unusual around Autopia-ville)

These are daily drivers for the most part and it`s been excessively dirty (dust, pollen) around NE Ohio lately so that addition helps keep it somewhat tolerable without much effort.

Then again, it`s all so subjective that it all might be in my head. Ya stare and stare at it and finally something pops that is newly pleasing to the eye...or so you think.
Click to expand...

Good to know thanks for info on ISM/Infinity sounds like I might stick with ISM/Overcoat for self cleaning ability as its going on my daily. Curios to see how overcoat over infinity acts, look forward to your results, good chance of rain this week in Columbus area.
 
Another coating related note: Put 2 coats of Kami Miyabi only on a friends truck 2 weeks ago, truck hasn`t been washed since.

Saw it yesterday after a heavy rainstorm, truck looked like it was just hand washed. While I have been living and enjoying the Miyabi /ISM combo on our own car, had never done Miyabi only.

Quite impressive...I was actually kinda surprised.
 
HCF said:
Good to know thanks for info on ISM/Infinity sounds like I might stick with ISM/Overcoat for self cleaning ability as its going on my daily. Curios to see how overcoat over infinity acts, look forward to your results, good chance of rain this week in Columbus area.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah...the Overcoat brought back the nice water behavior that had been somewhat diminished in favor of beading by the Infinity Wax.

I happened to catch the hood of the Miyabi/ISM/Infinity/(recently added) Overcoat car with
some hose overspray yesterday while it was sitting in the driveway in full afternoon sun. Left it on there just to see if it would spot. There was some very faint spotting this morning then it rained on it today and now the spots are gone and the car looks extremely clean.

Maybe should just stop with all the underlying nonsense (coatings) and just use Overcoat after every wash. It seems to be doing most of the heavy lifting! Oh the horror, if so. I`ve been duped!
 
I finally got around to coating my Scat Pack with ISM and overcoat. I did lots of researching on forums, read your experience, Mike Lambert was very helpful answering some questions and folks at Esoteric and Kai at the open house. Kamikaze ISM was my 1st every coating I`ve applied. I was shocked how easy it was to work with and the results are great, even did all the trim. I let it cure for couple days then added overcoat. Hasn`t seen rain yet nor have I washed it and still looks great.
 
HCF said:
I finally got around to coating my Scat Pack with ISM and overcoat. I did lots of researching on forums, read your experience, Mike Lambert was very helpful answering some questions and folks at Esoteric and Kai at the open house. Kamikaze ISM was my 1st every coating I`ve applied. I was shocked how easy it was to work with and the results are great, even did all the trim. I let it cure for couple days then added overcoat. Hasn`t seen rain yet nor have I washed it and still looks great.
Click to expand...

Need to play more with Miyabi by itself but ISM is like the all time great coating you can ever wish for IMO - Super durability / self cleaning and dirt repellant, Non-flammable, Non VOC and no foul odor, super ease of use, Warm liquid wax like looks.

I can`t wait for the new version of Overcoat that`s said to come out later this year. Hell, the ultimate would be a spray ISM/Overcoat in one lol :)

I like that Kai doesn`t muck around with overly technical jargon or stuff like 9H overhyped BS.. and preaches preservation for anti aging the paint like Artificial Clear coat instead of polishing (for thin clears, though i have not tried that)
 
HCF said:
, even did all the trim.
Click to expand...

I usually end up with leftover ISM when doing the Miyabi & ISM combo so I use it up as trim coating on other cars. Just great in that capacity if a little overkill.



mg031 said:
Need to play more with Miyabi by itself
Click to expand...

I was really quite surprised when I saw the Miyabi-only truck the other day. It really works well on it`s own. I figured it would be nice but wow, much better than I expected.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top