Help selecting DA package polishes; question on waxing with a DA

B

Bill1975

New member
I`m going to finally purchase a 7424XP along with some pads and polishes. I have been looking at the kits offered through auto geek and the only confusion I have is over what polishes are best? I`m not sure if there is any difference other than personal preference when it comes to Meg`s vs Optimum vs Menzerna. I`ve used Meg`s and and Optimum products (wash soap and waxes) but never used Menzerna. Here`s a example of what I`m looking at:

Optimum Porter Cable 7424 Kit Remove swirl marks and paint flaws
Menzerna Porter Cable XP Maximum Shine Kit FREE BONUS
Meguiars Porter Cable Ultra Polish Kit with 5.5 Inch Pads, Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Polishing Kit, Meguiars polishes, Porter Cable 7424 Mirror Glaze

1) is it just a matter of personal preference? I`ve never used any polishes but have used other products by Meg`s and Optimum and they seem to work well. the pads are all basically the same from one kit to the next

2) when waxing, I always thought removal and buffing were to be done by hand, but is it possible to apply, remove and buff wax with a DA? I`m thinking of getting some microfiber bonnets to put over the foam pad that comes with the PC 7424 and use those for removal and buffing of wax.

if it matters, my car is a 2013 VW GTI, carbon steel grey metallic. I purchased it four months ago, and aside from some light swirls and water spots the paint isn`t bad. I`ve kept it clayed and waxed. My last car was a black 2004 Passat and it was torture seeing marring stick out like a sore thumb. I think this car will be easier to deal with.
 
Bill 1975 -
I read and re-read all the packages..

The only package that might work for your new GTI would be the Optimum package..

But it needs to have the smaller backing plate for 5.5" foam pads and there needs to be at least 3-4 of the orange and the white foam pads..

It is nutty to just offer 1 pad of specific work here.. What are they thinking?? :) You are wanting to Detail your entire vehicle...

The pads get dirty with used compound and gunk from the paint, and even if you clean them a lot between passes with a cotton towel, they are still going to be unusable after a while, and you need to get another pad..

When all done for the day you need to wash the pads with a good foam pad cleaner and allow them to dry which can take over 24 hours depending on how hot it is and if there is good air movement..

The Meguiars package has the best version of the Porter Cable machine of the 3 offered, but the M105 compound you will probably never need and the quantities are huge - (32oz)...
Dan F
 
I planned on getting additional pads. I agree that one of each type is a bit silly.the pads it comes with are 6 1/2" so I would think the included plate would work.

the Meg`s would be great if it came in smaller quantities! I guess I could piece everything individually, but I haven`t really compared costs. I`m mainly interested in figuring out what compound and/or polish products will work best, as that`s the most confusing. I do have a pretty good idea of what kind of pads to get. I know I`ll need several of each type and a good cleaner. I suppose I could try to buy a used PC and piece everything else together and still save some money.
 
Stokdgs- Good reply!

Bill1975- I`d be leery of the potential "shaft breakage" issue with the PC (apparently not as big a threat to the vehicle with the GG6). But anhow..

I sometimes buff off my LSP residue via machine using MF bonnets. It works OK but I still need to do a by-hand follow-up most of the time. Don`t let that dissuade you though, if doing it with the polisher and bonnets weren`t worth it I wouldn`t bother getting out/setting up/putting away the stuff. Works best if you do the "THIN application" thing though.
 
Accumulator said:
I sometimes buff off my LSP residue via machine using MF bonnets. It works OK but I still need to do a by-hand follow-up most of the time. Don`t let that dissuade you though, if doing it with the polisher and bonnets weren`t worth it I wouldn`t bother getting out/setting up/putting away the stuff. Works best if you do the "THIN application" thing though.
Click to expand...

this is is good to know. Anything to save wear and tear on my elbow and save time. Even just application and an initial removal via a machine would be helpful.

i was not aware of shaft breakage. I wincing just thinking about it!!!
 
Bill1975- Yeah, I started doing the machine-on/off when a shoulder problem was causing trouble. The different motions made all the difference. Not sure if it really saves time though, but if there`s less discomfort/etc. it can still be worth it.
 
Bill1975 said:
I planned on getting additional pads. I agree that one of each type is a bit silly.the pads it comes with are 6 1/2" so I would think the included plate would work.

the Meg`s would be great if it came in smaller quantities! I guess I could piece everything individually, but I haven`t really compared costs. I`m mainly interested in figuring out what compound and/or polish products will work best, as that`s the most confusing. I do have a pretty good idea of what kind of pads to get. I know I`ll need several of each type and a good cleaner. I suppose I could try to buy a used PC and piece everything else together and still save some money.
Click to expand...

Bill1975 -

For a new VW GTI Paintwork, the Meguiars105 would be huge overkill and take off more paint than needed..
The M205 would be a better polish for that paint since you say it does not have a lot of defects, etc... But then what do you do with 32 oz of a product you will probably never use??

Of the 3 choices though, the Optimum has perhaps better compounds for your needs and in smaller quantities..

I don`t have a lot of recent experience with those Optimum compounds in that package, but I do have a few years experience with Optimum Hyper Polish and it is really good for many types of paintwork and defects...

It also finishes really nice and leaves awesome gloss and clarity if used completely to very little left on that part of the panel you are working on..

It might be a good idea to at least run the numbers on a machine, pads of your choice, and compounds and/or polishes of your choice and see how it looks.. And again, the 5.5" pads and appropriate backing plate are going to be way easier to use and control than those big honking 6.5" pads..

I never use that big 6.5" pad unless I am doing something really big with lots of straight panels like an airplane, big vans, etc...

You have to press down on the pad when doing this work, so which would be easier and more effective for that little machine and your ability to keep constant pressure on it? The huge pad or the more compatible next smaller size ??

There might be discounts over on this Autopia Store too, have you looked here yet ?

I just hate to see these guys selling weirdly put together products and then either too much of some products and not enough of the others..

I don`t know, sounds like they are perhaps trying to get rid of stuff..?? There is just no way 1 pad can possibly last all the way around a vehicle - especially with a random orbital that is moving it back and forth AND rotating it all at the same time.. It will get a lot of heat build up that then kills the pad and usually delaminates the microfiber backing cloth from the back of the pad, so it flies off and can never be used again unless you find some way of gluing it back on....

You now mention arm problems - this machine in the offers you linked is going to vibrate a lot and that might aggravate the arm/elbow issue...
Something else to consider... Hope it will be ok for you...
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Bill1975 -

For a new VW GTI Paintwork, the Meguiars105 would be huge overkill and take off more paint than needed..
The M205 would be a better polish for that paint since you say it does not have a lot of defects, etc... But then what do you do with 32 oz of a product you will probably never use??

Of the 3 choices though, the Optimum has perhaps better compounds for your needs and in smaller quantities..

I don`t have a lot of recent experience with those Optimum compounds in that package, but I do have a few years experience with Optimum Hyper Polish and it is really good for many types of paintwork and defects...

It also finishes really nice and leaves awesome gloss and clarity if used completely to very little left on that part of the panel you are working on..

It might be a good idea to at least run the numbers on a machine, pads of your choice, and compounds and/or polishes of your choice and see how it looks.. And again, the 5.5" pads and appropriate backing plate are going to be way easier to use and control than those big honking 6.5" pads..

I never use that big 6.5" pad unless I am doing something really big with lots of straight panels like an airplane, big vans, etc...

You have to press down on the pad when doing this work, so which would be easier and more effective for that little machine and your ability to keep constant pressure on it? The huge pad or the more compatible next smaller size ??

There might be discounts over on this Autopia Store too, have you looked here yet ?

I just hate to see these guys selling weirdly put together products and then either too much of some products and not enough of the others..

I don`t know, sounds like they are perhaps trying to get rid of stuff..?? There is just no way 1 pad can possibly last all the way around a vehicle - especially with a random orbital that is moving it back and forth AND rotating it all at the same time.. It will get a lot of heat build up that then kills the pad and usually delaminates the microfiber backing cloth from the back of the pad, so it flies off and can never be used again unless you find some way of gluing it back on....

You now mention arm problems - this machine in the offers you linked is going to vibrate a lot and that might aggravate the arm/elbow issue...
Something else to consider... Hope it will be ok for you...
Dan F
Click to expand...

Bill1975 -
A very good compound that finishes down really nice on German paint is Menzena M2500 Power Finish..
Another product that works really well on German paint is Sonax Profiline Perfect Finish..
I prefer to use products matched as much as possible to the paintwork so that is why I like these 2..

There are others that will come up here that are newer and probably work great but I don`t have as much experience with them as others here do..
Dan F
 
What a rabbit hole this becomes! a few more questions, if you will bare with me:

so I will go with 5.5" pads, but is there an advantage re: CCS vs flat vs low profile?
im thinking of lake country pads - orange, white, black, and maybe red. Would two of each be sufficient?
the pad that comes with the PC is a thick 6" pad. If I were to use MF bonnets for wax application/removal, would a 6 or 6.5" bonnet fir better.

as for product, I had my last car, a black VW Passat detailed professionally with Optimum polishes and the results were pretty good, so I`m leaning toward those, but will look into the Menzerna. Looks like M205 is too aggressive, 105 would work but I like the idea of having more than one option if I run into some tougher areas.
 
Bill1975 said:
What a rabbit hole this becomes! a few more questions, if you will bare with me:

so I will go with 5.5" pads, but is there an advantage re: CCS vs flat vs low profile?
im thinking of lake country pads - orange, white, black, and maybe red. Would two of each be sufficient?
the pad that comes with the PC is a thick 6" pad. If I were to use MF bonnets for wax application/removal, would a 6 or 6.5" bonnet fir better.

as for product, I had my last car, a black VW Passat detailed professionally with Optimum polishes and the results were pretty good, so I`m leaning toward those, but will look into the Menzerna. Looks like M205 is too aggressive, 105 would work but I like the idea of having more than one option if I run into some tougher areas.
Click to expand...

What makes you think M205 is too aggressive without doing a test spot? It`s a finishing polish just like optimums finishing polish.
 
I have had a few people approach me about putting together a starter kit.

For polishing paint I usually set them up with the following:
Meguiar`s Gold Class Car Wash
Meguiar`s Smooth Surface Clay Kit
Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound
Meguiar`s Ultimate Polish
Meguiar`s Ultimate Liquid Wax
2 - 5.5" Red Buff and Shine Pads (wax)
4 - 5.5" Blue Buff and Shine Pads (polish)
4 - 5.5" Green Buff and Shine Pads (compound)
4 - 5.5" Buff and Shine Microfiber Cutting Pads (heavy compounding)
5" Buff and Shine plate
Porter Cable 7424xp
12 Meguiar`s Supreme Shine Microfiber towels
 
Bill1975 said:
What a rabbit hole this becomes! a few more questions, if you will bare with me:

so I will go with 5.5" pads, but is there an advantage re: CCS vs flat vs low profile?
im thinking of lake country pads - orange, white, black, and maybe red. Would two of each be sufficient?
the pad that comes with the PC is a thick 6" pad. If I were to use MF bonnets for wax application/removal, would a 6 or 6.5" bonnet fir better.

as for product, I had my last car, a black VW Passat detailed professionally with Optimum polishes and the results were pretty good, so I`m leaning toward those, but will look into the Menzerna. Looks like M205 is too aggressive, 105 would work but I like the idea of having more than one option if I run into some tougher areas.
Click to expand...

Bill1975 -

Lake Country and others have made the pads thinner for Random Orbital machines, etc., so that they will be able to rotate easier since there is less weight, etc..
These would be a good choice for your machine...

I have always had the best result from flat no dimples, etc., things on the pads to take away from the surface area that needs to be on the panel to work the product and the paint together more efficiently..

I think you need more than 2 of each pad...

The Lake Country pads you mentioned - orange, white, black, red, will work really well in their respective areas of the process..
The orange would be used to do the initial correction/clean up, and the white would come after to polish the paint, enhance clarity, and gloss..

Yes, you can put the microfiber bonnets over the bigger 6.5" pads and that will work ok for what it does.. You will have to experiment with that and see if it gives you what you want..

There is no set in stone rule that states - X nbr of pads are enough for a vehicle.. There are too many variables that come into play.. And then we have to factor in the Operator`s experience level using the machine, compound or polish, and the technique/process used..

I would rather have more than enough pads to finish the job than to have to stop, wash the pads with a good foam pad soap, rinse and then get them dried which takes usually at least 24 hrs or more..

You can decide how much time you want to spend Detailing your GTI`s paintwork, when you go out there to do it, and go from there...

To be clear - Meguiars 105 is a great product.. Meguiars has since made Meguiars 101 which is supposed to be easier to use than M105... These 2 products are very aggressive - the highest number aggressive on Meguiars` chart.. These compounds will not finish down as good for most people..

Meguiars 205 is more of a polish - not as aggressive - finishes down beautifully after Meguiars 105 or 101 has been used for the initial correction..

On the Menzerna line, their product M2500 Power Finish will correct very well AND finish down very well..
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Bill1975 -

Lake Country and others have made the pads thinner for Random Orbital machines, etc., so that they will be able to rotate easier since there is less weight, etc..
These would be a good choice for your machine...

I have always had the best result from flat no dimples, etc., things on the pads to take away from the surface area that needs to be on the panel to work the product and the paint together more efficiently..

I think you need more than 2 of each pad...

The Lake Country pads you mentioned - orange, white, black, red, will work really well in their respective areas of the process..
The orange would be used to do the initial correction/clean up, and the white would come after to polish the paint, enhance clarity, and gloss..

Yes, you can put the microfiber bonnets over the bigger 6.5" pads and that will work ok for what it does.. You will have to experiment with that and see if it gives you what you want..

There is no set in stone rule that states - X nbr of pads are enough for a vehicle.. There are too many variables that come into play.. And then we have to factor in the Operator`s experience level using the machine, compound or polish, and the technique/process used..

I would rather have more than enough pads to finish the job than to have to stop, wash the pads with a good foam pad soap, rinse and then get them dried which takes usually at least 24 hrs or more..

You can decide how much time you want to spend Detailing your GTI`s paintwork, when you go out there to do it, and go from there...

To be clear - Meguiars 105 is a great product.. Meguiars has since made Meguiars 101 which is supposed to be easier to use than M105... These 2 products are very aggressive - the highest number aggressive on Meguiars` chart.. These compounds will not finish down as good for most people..

Meguiars 205 is more of a polish - not as aggressive - finishes down beautifully after Meguiars 105 or 101 has been used for the initial correction..

On the Menzerna line, their product M2500 Power Finish will correct very well AND finish down very well..
Dan F
Click to expand...
Hi Dan. Thanks for detailed replies. At my beginning skill level I suspect the type of pad, flat vs dimpled, may not make that much of a difference but I tend to study things pretty closely before making decisions.
 
I found the comparison chart on autopia of different polishes and how aggressive they are. I will probably use that as a guide.
 
Bill1975 said:
How do these compare to the professional line products?
Click to expand...

The Ultimate Compound compared to M105, is much easier to use. It features a similar abrasive set to M105, but with a different carrier liquid.

Ultimate Polish to me, is interchangable with M205. I bieve M205 had a touch more cut, but they both finish down about the same.

My preference is the Ultimate line.
 
Bill1975 said:
Whoops! I meant 105. 205 is pretty mild that is correct.
Click to expand...


Gotcha. My brothers girlfriend had a 2010 Jetta and the paint responded well to Meguiar`s ultimate compound and a cutting pad. It removed the majority of the defects when I did a small section on the hood before she traded it in for a 2009 Corvette.

I would not recommend M105. With it`s learning curve it could cause frustration. M100, M1010 and even ultimate compound are better alternatives for a compound. Even D300 works well on foam even though it was designed for the microfiber cutting pads. I prefer to still use it with the microfiber cutting pads as there is virtually no dust. On harder paints this combo can finish LSP (last step product = protection) ready.

danlc95 said:
I have had a few people approach me about putting together a starter kit.

For polishing paint I usually set them up with the following:
Meguiar`s Gold Class Car Wash
Meguiar`s Smooth Surface Clay Kit
Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound
Meguiar`s Ultimate Polish
Meguiar`s Ultimate Liquid Wax
2 - 5.5" Red Buff and Shine Pads (wax)
4 - 5.5" Blue Buff and Shine Pads (polish)
4 - 5.5" Green Buff and Shine Pads (compound)
4 - 5.5" Buff and Shine Microfiber Cutting Pads (heavy compounding)
5" Buff and Shine plate
Porter Cable 7424xp
12 Meguiar`s Supreme Shine Microfiber towels
Click to expand...

This would make an excellent starter kit. I would toss in a bottle of ultimate quik wax or even the gallon version D156 to maintain the finish. I actually prefer the Meguiar`s thin foam pads paired for the Meguiar;s liquids. They just work so well together.

Bill1975 said:
How do these compare to the professional line products?
Click to expand...

It`s as close as one will get to the pro line based on consumer products.

danlc95 said:
The Ultimate Compound compared to M105, is much easier to use. It features a similar abrasive set to M105, but with a different carrier liquid.

Ultimate Polish to me, is interchangable with M205. I bieve M205 had a touch more cut, but they both finish down about the same.

My preference is the Ultimate line.
Click to expand...

This is true. I will add that ultimate polish has more polishing oils than M205 and a little less cut. The polishing oils will give a darkening effect compared to that of M205. Some like the darkening effect and others don`t. Both are great products.
 
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