Thoughts on changing my mindset about maintaining my finish?

Actually, this is exactly how I`ve felt about spray waxes, quick detailers, and rinsless washes. I`ve only started doing RW this year and probably have done less than ten total including other cars. I have noticed marring and very light scratches (early phase of swirls) on my mother`s fusion and I wondered if it was from the RWing as I try to save time when maintaining her cars finish. My silver Jeep SRT8`s clear is much harder to mar and I don`t find any wash induced marring even when RWing on very soiled paint.

She says no one else has ever washed her car but me although she has taken it to a few touchless washes (she thinks they were touchless). I`m fairly confident the scratches didn`t come from me but it`s hard to know without correcting the plant and trying again.

As for polishing yearly IMHO that depends on how thick you clear is and how long you plan to keep the car. I`ve been polishing mine yearly without issue and if the clear does fail I`m ready to have it repainted.

Don`t get me wrong RW definitely has a place but maybe less so on a daily driven out door parked car. I doubt very much that a RW would mar the paint when just used to remove dust on a garage queen.
 
cobrar97 said:
So how many light to medium polishes can an average clearcoat handle?
Click to expand...

Depends on:
  • Clear coat thickness
  • Clear coat hardness
  • Machine Polisher type (rotary or dual-action)
  • Machine make model and age
  • Machine speed
  • Pads used and age of pads
  • Polish/compound used


Basically, there`s no answer to your question without having all the variables in place and even then it`s just an estimate.

kind of like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop

On my car and my clear using my own technique and polish, I would guestimate I could polish it another 20-50 times (longer than I`d keep my car). I`d be more likely to have paint failure first.
 
4u2nvinmtl said:
As for polishing yearly IMHO that depends on how thick you clear is and how long you plan to keep the car...
Click to expand...

I also factor in the time/hassle of having to do the polishing too. I simply don`t want to do that any more and even if I had unlimited clearcoat thickness I`d still try to avoid it as much as possible...just me, I don`t enjoy this stuff the way many/most Autopians do.

I`ve been polishing mine yearly without issue and if the clear does fail I`m ready to have it repainted.
Click to expand...

Whereas I`m all about having factory paint. Repaints are *so* fraught with potential issues, especially with so many of today`s vehicles being put together in a way that doesn`t allow them to be disassembled. And then there`s the cost..it can easily run into 5-figures. (My idea of a "proper repaint" is one that involves glass out/fasteners removed/etc. etc.).

I`ve bought three cars (before getting an ETG) that were polished so often (before I got them) that I couldn`t do enough additional correction to get them up to my standards...sold two of them because of it as I couldn`t stand how they looked and wasn`t gonna repaint.

I doubt very much that a RW would mar the paint when just used to remove dust on a garage queen.
Click to expand...

That`s what I thought too, especially with hard clear and a meticulously careful approach...looked OK until I turned out the lights and hit it with the SunGun :( Just one of those "YMMV" things...
 
oh man I guess im throwing out my gallon of spray and wipe and spray and gloss now

yea, right. lol

bury them with me along with my DMTs :)
 
One of the main reason I`ve done RW in the past is because of my driveway location. In the evening, it`s in the sun. When I wash it (real-deal wash), I can`t move fast enough and get water spots to some extent due to the sun. And it doesn`t matter what the air temperature is. When I RW, I work on one panel at a time on the shaded side of the vehicle as not to get spots. If the air temp isn`t over 80, I can often RW the side in the sun and move fast enough to not have any problem...or I can turn the vehicle around to be back in the shaded side. Doing a full wash is always a pain due to the drying of water on the paint due to heat or wind.
 
now if you QD like my friends do, yeah, I can see 100% chance of scratching the paint

(crappy towels opened all the way with a firm palm in the middle and definitely only circular motions because apparently that`s the only way to remove anything! haha)
 
512detail said:
now if you QD like my friends do, yeah, I can see 100% chance of scratching the paint

(crappy towels opened all the way with a firm palm in the middle and definitely only circular motions because apparently that`s the only way to remove anything! haha)
Click to expand...

I`ve always QD`d with Microfiber Maddness plush towels (constantly flipping and re-folding). I only work in lineal motions (front to back on hood...up and down on doors). I always thought I was doing good by keeping the dust off.
 
No question about it, straight-line scratches are less obvious than circular ones. I`d go front-back on the doors too as horizontal marring seems less obvious (well, to me) than vertical.
 
I gave up touching the paint between washes years ago. It`s saved me money, time, and headaches. The idea of a perfect looking car free from dust, pollen, and other contaminants is a fools folly. Live with it between washes, and even then five minutes after you wash it, it`s receiving contaminants in one form or another.
 
Accumulator said:
No question about it, straight-line scratches are less obvious than circular ones. I`d go front-back on the doors too as horizontal marring seems less obvious (well, to me) than vertical.
Click to expand...

I was always taught that vertical scratches on the sides are less noticeable because the light would be reflecting outward to the sides of your plain-of-vision. With a horizontal scratch, the light is reflecting upward toward your eyes and running the entire length of the scratch; therefore you see more of it. That`s why swirls are mostly seen as an arc when look at them...it`s the more horizontal part of the scratch.
Again...that`s just what I was taught...doesn`t mean it`s 100% right.
 
silverfox said:
I gave up touching the paint between washes years ago. It`s saved me money, time, and headaches. The idea of a perfect looking car free from dust, pollen, and other contaminants is a fools folly. Live with it between washes, and even then five minutes after you wash it, it`s receiving contaminants in one form or another.
Click to expand...

I can`t disagree it`s not the "better" way to reduce marring...but I don`t know if my OCD can handle it!
 
cobrar97 said:
Thank you for all the information. The Q&A was provided to me by a detailer/retailer of Kamikaze and Gyeon products. They are amazing detailers and very informative in many ways. I was turned on to the Kamikaze coating, and I think it`s amazing (so far). I value everyone`s thoughts and opinions on products and processes...because that`s how a person becomes educated enough to come up with a process that works for them. In this case, I was just surprised and the very firm stance on NO rinseless wash and NO QD...especially when so many, many detailers on her use those products with seemingly great success. That`s why I came to everyone with my questions.

The entire Q&A started simply from me asking what QD and/or rinseless wash would be compatible with the Kamikaze coating and done degrade it`s fantastic appearance. Mr Lambert (and advocate for the Kamikaze and Gyeon products) recommended Kenotech as a QD he as had success with. So as a user of Kamikaze products, he is still having success with products that are supposedly not good to use. Like many here, I just don`t know if I can NOT dust, wipe, wash, etc...I think I`d go crazy.

As Dan mentioned above, the group here has combined knowledge that is on another level...so it makes sense to ask the best.
Click to expand...

Cobra97 -

Thank you so much for your kind words !

I am glad that you have been following Mike Lambert who is also an incredibly talented Detailer in his own right and was one of the first to experiment with the Kamikaze and Gyeon products on this Forum..

And if you look back at his stellar work WITH those products, you will know that what he tells you is the truth and nothing but the truth..
If he says this QD works on those products, then believe me, it does or he would not even say it..

I remember a couple of Forums ago (maybe 3 Forums ago) or so, perhaps over 10 years ago, he was a new up and coming Detailer and has worked really hard all those years to grow and advance his own skillset to the highest level around..

Lucky for you and all of us, there are a lot of guys/gals like him on here; and this Forum alone will have eons depth of knowledge and wisdom to learn from and contribute to...:)

I also love that we can all co-exist on here and even in the most sensitive subjects that are not necessarily about Detailing, we all still care enough about each other to not let anything break that common bond that I wish all Mankind would seek and nurture...
Dan F
 
Dan...that is all so true. I`m not one that will ever claim to be the best...because no one can indeed ever be the best. There`s always an aspect that someone else will do better. However, there are people that have perfected certain aspects...and may not even know it. My goal is to learn more and more from those people who have mastered different parts of detailing. I can only truly become better with the guidance of those who are before me. Someone who thinks they have outdone everyone is only missing out for themselves...missing so much. Of course, heated conversations happen all the time...but that happens with my wife too...and I more than know I wouldn`t be who I am without her. Same with the detailing world; I`m more than happy to learn, argue, and defend...and at the end of the day, I`ll know a little more about detailing (or the people doing it) than I did when I started that day. Now that`s what is worth something!
 
Another vote for straight line back and forth movements for anything washing, waxing, etc., and especially on the vertical panels, doors, fenders, etc...

This is also how you wet color sand by hand, with a block, in the Painting world, if you want to keep the surface flat and straight..

I just remembered Sal Zaino always stating his products had to be applied in straight line motions and he probably said that over 50 years ago!!! :)

See what I mean ??? The old guys have the wisdom... :)
Dan F
 
mnehls86 said:
I think the best way would be what a few members here do which is pressure wash and then rinseless. That might possibly be as safe if not safer than a 2 bucket wash even with a couple different mitts because you 8 different sides of the mf towel and using multiple towels. With a wash mitt you are going over larger surface areas and if you do pick anything up, that is going to get ground into the paint whereas if you pick anything up with a mf towel, on the next swipe you are already using a new edge of that side or a whole new side.
Click to expand...

Bingo! This is the only real way to do it.

I use waterless once in a blue moon but... 95% of the time I think why wouldn`t I want to utilize the hydrophobic properties of coating by using water to carry debris off the car effortlessly?
 
Stokdgs said:
Another vote for straight line back and forth movements for anything washing, waxing, etc., and especially on the vertical panels, doors, fenders, etc...

This is also how you wet color sand by hand, with a block, in the Painting world, if you want to keep the surface flat and straight..

I just remembered Sal Zaino always stating his products had to be applied in straight line motions and he probably said that over 50 years ago!!! :)

See what I mean ??? The old guys have the wisdom... :)
Dan F
Click to expand...


ZAINO...that`s where I learned about the lineal motions! Look here at Step 3, bullet point #1:
Zaino Store: Application Tips
 
cobrar97 said:
Dan...that is all so true. I`m not one that will ever claim to be the best...because no one can indeed ever be the best. There`s always an aspect that someone else will do better. However, there are people that have perfected certain aspects...and may not even know it. My goal is to learn more and more from those people who have mastered different parts of detailing. I can only truly become better with the guidance of those who are before me. Someone who thinks they have outdone everyone is only missing out for themselves...missing so much. Of course, heated conversations happen all the time...but that happens with my wife too...and I more than know I wouldn`t be who I am without her. Same with the detailing world; I`m more than happy to learn, argue, and defend...and at the end of the day, I`ll know a little more about detailing (or the people doing it) than I did when I started that day. Now that`s what is worth something!
Click to expand...

Cobra97 --

^^^^^^Very well thought out and said !
Couldn`t agree more !

Imagine the absolute brain power to be had when all contribute their part - their best to the effort - It IS amazing...
I so want to, and have grown much in my time here and on the other sites a few of us here were on over a decade ago...

The most Perfect Man to ever walk the earth once said - "Let us sit down at the table and reason together as men".....
Dan F
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top