The Guz
Mike
Try both methods (polish/seal and AIO/seal). See which one befits you more. But I am in agreement with allen about topping an AIO.
What to top Speed with?
- Thread starter OneQuickGT1
- Start date
A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point rather than to elicit an answer.[SUP][1][/SUP] Though classically stated as a proper question, such a rhetorical device may be posed declaratively[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] by implying a question, and therefore may not always require a question mark when written. Though a rhetorical question does not require a direct answer, in many cases it may be intended to start a discussion or at least draw an acknowledgement that the listener understands the intended message.
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
I would suggest the new Blackfire Spray wax to top Speed.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Not that I know from Speed, but..
Interesting that so many people aren't in favor of topping AIOs. I do it all the time as I like AIOs but want more durability (and/or a different look). Guess I like using certain AIOs as Paint Cleaners and even as my Finishing Polish, and in some cases they contribute a lot to the overall look (e.g., Autoglym SRP and 1Z products like Pro MP and WPS which I do consider AIOs).
MFs more abrasive than AIOs?!? Other the the functionally nonabrasive KAIO, my AIOs have some mild abrasives (gotta be a little careful what I use ZAIO on) but my MFs are simply nonabrasive. Rub certain surfaces with (most) AIOs and I get pigment transfer and/or other signs of abrasion; rub them with bare MF and I don't.
Interesting that so many people aren't in favor of topping AIOs. I do it all the time as I like AIOs but want more durability (and/or a different look). Guess I like using certain AIOs as Paint Cleaners and even as my Finishing Polish, and in some cases they contribute a lot to the overall look (e.g., Autoglym SRP and 1Z products like Pro MP and WPS which I do consider AIOs).
MFs more abrasive than AIOs?!? Other the the functionally nonabrasive KAIO, my AIOs have some mild abrasives (gotta be a little careful what I use ZAIO on) but my MFs are simply nonabrasive. Rub certain surfaces with (most) AIOs and I get pigment transfer and/or other signs of abrasion; rub them with bare MF and I don't.
RDKC
New member
Hey now, quoting dictionaries is my thing. Quoting wikipedia is pushing the line there.
I don't get what the big deal is. I mean, I understand if you wouldn't want to top an AIO (I was actually thinking about trying it one day. Whenever I order some FK1000P) but what's so wrong with doing it? I've seen posts all over about people topping a sealant with a wax. That's pretty much the same thing? HD Speed is a polish and a sealant, and he wants to top it so, technically, if he were to do the same thing as seperate steps, he'd be doing two steps instead of three.
Impressive. You can use a keyboard and presumably a mouse.
Thanks again. You my friend, are a game changer.
jrock645
New member
Hey now, quoting dictionaries is my thing. Quoting wikipedia is pushing the line there.
I don't get what the big deal is. I mean, I understand if you wouldn't want to top an AIO (I was actually thinking about trying it one day. Whenever I order some FK1000P) but what's so wrong with doing it? I've seen posts all over about people topping a sealant with a wax. That's pretty much the same thing? HD Speed is a polish and a sealant, and he wants to top it so, technically, if he were to do the same thing as seperate steps, he'd be doing two steps instead of three.
Pretty much my thought when I read all the uproar. Topping sealant with wax. I don't see any difference here.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
I think products like KAIO and KSG are kind of a unique scenario. In that particular case it would make sense, but if your goal is actual paint correction (with an AIO that has mechanical abrasives) and a durable protection, a dedicated polish followed by a dedicated sealant will produce better results.
Considering the durability of an AIO is pretty weak, I have to wonder how well a more durable LSP will perform with such a weak supporting structure below it? Just food for thought.
It really comes down to what you're trying to achieve, what your client want's, and what they're willing to pay for, but for me, an All In One should be just that.
donbeezy
New member
i plan on using speed on my white honda civic soon, anyone know how long the durability is? once speed wears off im going to apply collinite for the winter
Accumulator
Well-known member
RaskyR1- I bet the wildcard here is "correction". I'm all about preserving clearcoat thickness these days and that might give me a very different perspective from the average Autopian (let alone you Pros). Other than the *very* rare spot-correction, my days of doing that stuff are, hopefully, pretty much behind me. Anyhow..
Ya know how I'm always raving about the durability of my LSPs...FK1000P lasting over a year in many cases, etc.? The LSPs that last so long for me are always applied over those seemingly fragile bases! I can't recall ever using FK1000P on truly bare paint. And/but (here's a weird one!) the LSPs that *DO NOT* last long for me are, just coincidentally works out this way, applied over polished/wiped bare paint. Waxes other than Collinite, BF, UPP, I generally apply those over bare paint and they never last long. I simply *never* have any evidence of the "fragile underlying product" causing a decrease in durability. Never. Not even when I use stuff like Meguiar's Pure Polishes under my waxes. It works out as if the bare paint were generally *worse* in this regard, not that I really believe that of course Unexpected to say the least, but I'm sure not complaining 
Not to take this farther off-topic than I already have
but that'd be an interesting topic to discuss some time- the effects/lack thereof of underlying products.
Ya know how I'm always raving about the durability of my LSPs...FK1000P lasting over a year in many cases, etc.? The LSPs that last so long for me are always applied over those seemingly fragile bases! I can't recall ever using FK1000P on truly bare paint. And/but (here's a weird one!) the LSPs that *DO NOT* last long for me are, just coincidentally works out this way, applied over polished/wiped bare paint. Waxes other than Collinite, BF, UPP, I generally apply those over bare paint and they never last long. I simply *never* have any evidence of the "fragile underlying product" causing a decrease in durability. Never. Not even when I use stuff like Meguiar's Pure Polishes under my waxes. It works out as if the bare paint were generally *worse* in this regard, not that I really believe that of course
Unexpected to say the least, but I'm sure not complaining Not to take this farther off-topic than I already have
but that'd be an interesting topic to discuss some time- the effects/lack thereof of underlying products.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Speed will produce a glossier end result than Polish on most finishes. It also leaves some decent protection behind. If you'd like to improve this protection (or apply a tighter layer) then topping with a compatible wax/sealant (Poxy) will certainly net you greater results. If you'd like even more icing on your cake then go 1 step further and apply HD Express. Hope this clarifies things a bit more for some.
Will SPEED produce a "glossier end result" than HD Polish followed by one of the 3D LSP's ?
What is the 3D definition of "decent protection" ?
What is a "tighter layer"
What type of improvement in appearance is gained when HD Express is applied on top of Speed and Poxy ?
What is the rationale behind using Speed in the scenario described above? It seems that suggesting layering 3 Different LSPs must have some research behind it
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Great questions, but my phone is dying and I'm about retire for the night. Hold that thought and I'll have a more formal reply tomorrow.
Ben@3D
New member
I will let David answer your questions. I just wanted to say, that as the manufacture, we designed HD Speed to be the best one step product we can produce. It is designed to polish and protect. It score fairly well on polishing, finishing and protection. However, not as good as a 100% polish or 100% wax/sealant would. For the casual user and 95% of the population, it does an amazing job and nothing else is needed as a topper.
For the higher end detailer who wants the quickness of HD Speed, but a bit more protection, it can be topped.
I will let David take it from here.
For the higher end detailer who wants the quickness of HD Speed, but a bit more protection, it can be topped.
I will let David take it from here.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I too wonder whether the higher gloss of Speed comes from it's LSP-stuff ingredients.
I had a *really* nice gloss on the '93 Audi from finishing with HD Polish via Cyclo. *REALLY* nice even *not* considering all the clearcoat failure/damage/etc. But when I then went over it again with 1Z WaxPolishSoft it was a simply amazing difference. Well, amazing to me at least Brought the gloss up so much I was just standing there staring at it. I'd wager that's due *far* more to the LSP-stuff in the 1Z WPS than from the utterly minimal abrasives in it.
(I'm so impressed with how it looks that I'm actually betting that my "durable LSP" topper will diminish the look.)
I had a *really* nice gloss on the '93 Audi from finishing with HD Polish via Cyclo. *REALLY* nice even *not* considering all the clearcoat failure/damage/etc. But when I then went over it again with 1Z WaxPolishSoft it was a simply amazing difference. Well, amazing to me at least
Brought the gloss up so much I was just standing there staring at it. I'd wager that's due *far* more to the LSP-stuff in the 1Z WPS than from the utterly minimal abrasives in it.(I'm so impressed with how it looks that I'm actually betting that my "durable LSP" topper will diminish the look.)
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Sorry for not responding sooner to your question. Things at work have been out of control and it's prevented me from checking in on the forum during the day and at night (after working 12 hours), the last thing I've been able to do is get behind a computer.
In my opinion I say 99% of the time it does finish better. Mostly in term of gloss. Even more so if you top it with POXY and/or Express.
There isn't any way of defining "decent protection" as there's just way too many variables. It's totally user defined. But, I'll say this......it offers as good or better protection that any other AIO/Glaze on the market.
This means a more even/thicker layer. When you use Speed, even though it has a percentage of POXY in it, you're technically not depositing as much protective polymers as you would if you applied POXY ala carte. Following up with a 2nd coat (if you will) will insure that there aren't any voids in protection on the surface making it more durable.
Express has a very nice look to itself on its own. It gives a darkening glow that is different from Speed and/or POXY. I also think it alters the beading effect slightly too.
I've been doing this "TRIFECTA" for a while and I gotta say that it's an amazing combo. Each product is great on its own. Using all 3 together pushes the limits of gloss to a whole nother level.
In my opinion I say 99% of the time it does finish better. Mostly in term of gloss. Even more so if you top it with POXY and/or Express.
There isn't any way of defining "decent protection" as there's just way too many variables. It's totally user defined. But, I'll say this......it offers as good or better protection that any other AIO/Glaze on the market.
This means a more even/thicker layer. When you use Speed, even though it has a percentage of POXY in it, you're technically not depositing as much protective polymers as you would if you applied POXY ala carte. Following up with a 2nd coat (if you will) will insure that there aren't any voids in protection on the surface making it more durable.
Express has a very nice look to itself on its own. It gives a darkening glow that is different from Speed and/or POXY. I also think it alters the beading effect slightly too.
I've been doing this "TRIFECTA" for a while and I gotta say that it's an amazing combo. Each product is great on its own. Using all 3 together pushes the limits of gloss to a whole nother level.
KBsToy
New member
With joining auto-connect I was able to stock up on HD products and from what I have been reading maybe I did something right for a change 