Zaino to BlackFire

mx5gary

mx5gary

New member
Seems to be a few of us making a change this year away from Zaino. Although I believe it to be one of the best products on the market, with all dark colored cars I have always missed the depth that a fresh wax provided. Based on many recommendations and photos I belive we are going to try a little BlackFire for 2003.



Here is what I'm toying with when the last snow disapears.



Wash Z7

Zaino Removal - GPAC (3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner #08984)

SMR (3M Swirl Mark Remover)

CB Z18

Wash Z7

SEC (S100 Shine Enhancing Cleaner)

BFGEP (Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish)

BFPP (Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection)

S100 (Carnauba Wax)

QD - QS (ClearKote Quik Shine)



Normally I would wash than clay but shouldn't the clay be the last step before glaze/polish?



Would additional coats of BFPP be of similar value as coats of Zanio? Do you QD between coats of BFPP to enhance as Zanio does?



Any steps you would flip around? Why?



For the normal maintenance; besides wash, QD or wash, wax & QD; after the above is complete. Any reason to SEC than S100?



Thanks -Gary
 
I was goin going to post something similar to this today. I do not think you need to use the GAPC I think clay alone will take off all of the Zaino or so I have been told. Good post!! I hope we get some good replies.:up
 
TheOzzfather said:
I was goin going to post something similar to this today. I do not think you need to use the GAPC I think clay alone will take off all of the Zaino or so I have been told. Good post!! I hope we get some good replies.:up
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If you're using 3M SMR, you don't have to use the GPAC. Claying will put a dent in Zaino, but I have never found it to be completely removed. Claying together with SMR will remove the Zaino.



Also, I'd clay before doing the SMR. Steps 1-3 would be wash, clay, wash.
 
With the number of coats of Zanio applied last year I'm looking to make sure none is left for a fresh start and peace of mind. Hence the use of GAPC or Isopropol Alcohol. Agreed it's probadly an unneeded step but I don't see how it would hurt.



With regards to claying. Isn't its purpose is to remove any surface contamination in the protectant? As SMR removes the protectant wouldn't you than want to use clay after SMR to remove any lingering contaminatations on the following layer?
 
I believe that claying should be the first step in the process right after washing. The clay doesn't put down any fillers or waxes or anything. It should be the first step because if any of the other products you are using are putting down fillers to help get rid of the swirls then the clay would just counteract those products. You should graduate from the strongest cleaners down to the mildest cleaners when detailing your car. Start with clay and then work down from your most aggressive product to your wax. That's just the way I always did it. YMMV
 
Jngrbrdman said:
I believe that claying should be the first step in the process right after washing. The clay doesn't put down any fillers or waxes or anything. It should be the first step because if any of the other products you are using are putting down fillers to help get rid of the swirls then the clay would just counteract those products. ...
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Well stated. :up



Thanks -Gary
 
Ahhh - some good detailing talk!



My thoughts/suggestions:



1) Z7 wash contains Zaino polymers; perhaps a different wash should be used prior to the S100 SEPC?



2) Clay before the SMR (as stated by Jngr); you don't want the clay lifting out any fillers that the SMR put in place.



3) Don't know which BF you're using, but BF1 was fairly abrasive; I think I saw someone here tested BF2 for abrasiveness, but can't remember off the top of my head.



4) Re: follow-ups; I don't think additional SEPC's would be necessary, just wax.
 
I noticed that also, and have some GoldClass or the QEW that I have been using this winter I could use.



I'm not really seeing (reading) anyone using the BF shampoo, and posts on Z7 appear to be favorable even without a complete Z job. But it's the only wash IMHO to use with the Z system, and I shall miss it if evidence so dictates.



Other than the Z products, which I have on hand, everything else will be fresh purchases.
 
I just made the switch from Z to BF2 last weekend based on the great things I had heard about it from people on this board. This is what I did:



1) Dawn wash

2) Z18 clay

3) 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze

4) P21S GEPC

5) BF Polish

6) BF Protectant



I love the PI-III because it doesn't leave any fillers or residue behind and actually removes the swirls rather than just fill them in. This way I was sure that I was starting the BF process with a clean slate.



I think you will be very happy with BF2. To my eyes, one coat of the stuff looks as good as ten coats of Zaino (steps 1-4 were the same for my Z prep as well). My first thought once I was done was "wow, it's red!" Depth and wetness is amazing. I have not had a chance to experiment with multiple coats, and will not be able to on this car, as it will be gone on Tuesday. My new car will be black though, and should be a great test bed for BF2.



Mike
 
Thanks for the insite Malibu. Threads support that Perfect-It III Machine Glaze removes rather than fills minor swirls as does the SMR product.



Based on the feed back todate it appears the best approach for the prep work might be:

wash - Dawn

clay Z18

wash - Shampoo

3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze

...



Hopefully some BF users will chime in on usage of QD between coats and their thoughts as to the optium number of coats before adding the topper.



Thanks -Gary
 
I use BF QD between coats. I never apply more than one coat in 24 hours and the car is in the garage until all steps are finished. I have not read anywhere that BF QD is required or necessary between coats but I am still following the Zaino idealogy of maximizing the gloss between coats and removal of any residual protectant that did not bond.

In terms of the GEPC with the BF polish. Some have stated that there is a synergistic advantage by performing both steps. :nixweiss . I performed a two-step final polish using Meg#9 followed by GEPC and than I applied the BFII protectant.

I love the results.

Even though you have many layers of Zaino the pre-treatment with GPAC is unnecessary. The claying, SMR'ing, GEPC'ing and BF polish will eliminate any Zaino that may have been present.

After the claying I would do a Dawn wash to produce a squeeky clean surface and than start the surface repair and filling.

I still use Z7 shampoo even with my BFII carnuaba topped finish. The amount of polymers is small and their effects can not be harmful and Z7 mildness is undisputable. JMO
 
4 or 5 layers seems to be the optic pinnacle for Blackfire from my experience. Start layering carnauba anytime after that.



I'm not the largest QD user in the world. I just use it to clean off bird bombs and splashes when the car is clean. I would suggest to QD as needed but don't use it in place of a normal wash.
 
Malibu said:


I love the PI-III because it doesn't leave any fillers or residue behind and actually removes the swirls rather than just fill them in. This way I was sure that I was starting the BF process with a clean slate.



...
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Since PI-III removes swirls versus SMR which fills them them in, just how many times a year is it safe using PI-III? Say you perform this complete detailing twice a year how long will it be before your repainting the car?



Gary
 
mx5gary said:
I'm not really seeing (reading) anyone using the BF shampoo, and posts on Z7 appear to be favorable even without a complete Z job. But it's the only wash IMHO to use with the Z system, and I shall miss it if evidence so dictates.
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I've used the BF shampoo. I think I even reviewed it. It's nice, but it isn't very sudsy. It does feel very slick, so I think it holds the dirt despite the lack of suds. I think if I were to spend the money again, though, I'd just buy another bottle of QD instead of the shampoo and QD after a wash with a sudsier shampoo.
 
Any thoughts to which one of these is more abrasive?

S100 Shine Enhancing Cleaner or Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish.

i.e. which would you recommend applying first?



Gary
 
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