SuperBee364
New member
I started using M205 shortly after it came out last spring. Unfortunately, I *stopped* using M205 shortly thereafter. In fact, I had to quit detailing for several months, but yesterday I was able to get back in the game, very anxious to pick up where I'd left off with M205
I have done about 8 cars with 205 now, with paint hardness varying from corvette rock to Porsche soft. Not a ton of cars, to be sure, but I was very particular in my use/experimentation/results on each one.
To say that I'm impressed with 205 would be a gross understatement. I have been a die hard Menzerna fan. So much so, that I even got a temporary Autopia ban due to letting my Menzerna passion get the best of me. So to have a product come along and just blow the doors off of my Menzerna equivalent(s) is something I don't take lightly. In my opinion, M205 is the very finest polish in it's class on the market today. I do have to put one qualifier on that: I haven't used *every* polish in it's class, but I am working on it.
So I guess I should say that M205 is the finest polish of it's kind that I have used. Yeah, that's better...
So what class is M205 in? I'd consider it an SIP or Power Finish Class. On the lighter side, possibly even PO106FF. And 205 wipes the floor with em all.
I first started using 205 with a DA buffer, based on the short version of the KBM method. I was extremely impressed with the amount of correction it could accomplish, while finishing out extremely well. OTOH, I was *not* impressed with how it worked via rotary. On all but the very hardest clears, I was unable to get M205 to finish out holo-free. This is the *only* ding I have to give 205: *with a rotary* it can be difficult to get it to finish down without holos. Not a problem with a DA, but I'm not able to get quite as good a shine finishing by DA as I can with a rotary.
That brings us up to yesterday. I recently moved to a new city. Our garage is still stuffed with moving boxes, so my car has been parked in the driveway or on the street (or in the airport's long term parking) for well over a month. The water here is even harder than the water from where we came: HARD! My car was covered in hard water spots.
Time for the Autumn detail!
I prepped with a full Hi-Temp Prep Wash bucket-n-mitt wash. I then clayed with Ricardo clay and ONR as lube. This removed the actual mineral deposits, but I was disappointed to see that there was quite a bit of clear coat etching. This was going to be a good test of 205's correcting ability, for sure.
So the paint's condition was mediocre. Some wash induced marring, some clay marring, quite a bit of hard water etching, and a passenger door that had been scraped up by the movers. It was covered in RIDS. Supe wasn't happy, for sure.
M205 was applied by rotary with an Edge 2k red wave foam six inch pad, two applications. The first application was strictly for defect removal, using about 1k to 1.2k RPM's and moderate pressure. The next application was the finishing or "jeweling" application. I started at 1k RPM, increased to 1.5k rpm, then backed down to 1k rpm for the final couple passes, all using just the weight of the buffer. After each application, I used a terry cloth towel to wipe down the face of the pad. I think this is a very important step to using M205 or M105: keep the face of the pad completely clean. Keep the pores open, and free of polish or clear coat. If you do this, you will get great results and increase the defect removing power by a ton. Using terry cloth seems to remove the stuff out of the pores of the pad better than an MF. For me, at least.
I used one pad to do two applications on the entire car. Yup, one pad. Here's what it looked like when I was done:
I'm kinda embarrassed that there's black stuff on it, but it's from accidentally touching my black vinyl super bee stickers while buffing. My punishment for not taking the time to tape off the stickers.
Notice, though, that the pores are completely cleaned out. Once a pad is properly primed, if you keep the pores cleaned out like this, there's really no reason to change pads, especially since a primed pad works so much better than a fresh one.
Proper pad priming and keeping the pores cleaned out really seem to be key to success with 105 and 205. I was able to finish out entirely holo free, but again I gotta put another qualifier on that statement: my paint is pretty darn hard.
So how did the 205 really perform? It completely removed all the defects, hard water etching, all the wash and clay marring, and did a darn fine job in diminishing the RIDS on the door. All in two applications with a zero bite foam pad. I am beyond impressed. It is so easy to use this stuff. Easy, easy, easy! And the results...for the level of gloss it leaves, you just wouldn't expect a polish to be able to do such a high level of defect correction. 205 doesn't leave a FPII or 85RD level of gloss, but to expect it to would be unreasonable, as it's not even in the same class. It does, however, leave a PO106FF level of gloss, but it has far, far more correcting ability than 106. It is also far easier to use than any of the Menz products. Not to mention about half the price!
I did an OCD hologram inspection afterward in bright sun. I used Prep Wash QD style to remove the M205 residue, and I followed that up with an IPA wipedown. I really wanted to make sure there wasn't any residue hiding any grams. Nada. Nothing but gorgeously shiny paint.
Hopefully, me changing things up a bit on how I used the 205 was the reason for finishing out holo-free, but I have a feeling it might also be because my paint is pretty hard. Next week, I'll be doing the wife's Toyota (pretty soft paint) the same way. If the Toyota finishes out holo-free, I'll be ordering 205 by the gallon.
Other stuff about yesterday's detail...
I gotta throw in a quick prop to Prep Wash. Until yesterday, I hadn't actually been using the product correctly. I'd been using it as part of a traditional wash. If I had bothered to actually read the directions, you can (and are supposed to) use it the same way you'd do an IPA wipedown: spray it on the paint, and wipe it off with an MF. Seriously good stuff.
I followed up with one coat of FK1 1000P. Then put on a second coat this morning. IME, it seems like the first coat of 1000P gives you a good, sealant kinda look. Then additional coats give the "thicker clear coat" effect, with three coats being optimum. 1000P also does seem to get much more durable with additional coats. More so, it seems, than a lot of other LSP's. One coat of 1000P seems to last a couple months, but three coats last longer than I can keep from touching the paint and either putting on more or switching to a different LSP.
I've seen a few threads about guys having trouble removing 1000P residue, and honestly until yesterday I thought you guys were nuts; I have always applied the first coat of 1000p with a DA, and have *never* had a problem removing the haze. Unfortunately, the doc says I'm still not allowed to use a DA yet, so I applied the first coat by hand. I had a heck of a time removing the residue. I can't seem to apply it as thinly by hand as by DA. Today's second coat went much easier. No doubt, though, that 1000P is best applied by DA for the first coat.
Lastly, using a good clay and lube really is important. ONR and Ricardo clay were able to remove some seriously bad water spots with minimal marring.
I have done about 8 cars with 205 now, with paint hardness varying from corvette rock to Porsche soft. Not a ton of cars, to be sure, but I was very particular in my use/experimentation/results on each one.
To say that I'm impressed with 205 would be a gross understatement. I have been a die hard Menzerna fan. So much so, that I even got a temporary Autopia ban due to letting my Menzerna passion get the best of me. So to have a product come along and just blow the doors off of my Menzerna equivalent(s) is something I don't take lightly. In my opinion, M205 is the very finest polish in it's class on the market today. I do have to put one qualifier on that: I haven't used *every* polish in it's class, but I am working on it.
So I guess I should say that M205 is the finest polish of it's kind that I have used. Yeah, that's better...So what class is M205 in? I'd consider it an SIP or Power Finish Class. On the lighter side, possibly even PO106FF. And 205 wipes the floor with em all.
I first started using 205 with a DA buffer, based on the short version of the KBM method. I was extremely impressed with the amount of correction it could accomplish, while finishing out extremely well. OTOH, I was *not* impressed with how it worked via rotary. On all but the very hardest clears, I was unable to get M205 to finish out holo-free. This is the *only* ding I have to give 205: *with a rotary* it can be difficult to get it to finish down without holos. Not a problem with a DA, but I'm not able to get quite as good a shine finishing by DA as I can with a rotary.
That brings us up to yesterday. I recently moved to a new city. Our garage is still stuffed with moving boxes, so my car has been parked in the driveway or on the street (or in the airport's long term parking) for well over a month. The water here is even harder than the water from where we came: HARD! My car was covered in hard water spots.
Time for the Autumn detail!
I prepped with a full Hi-Temp Prep Wash bucket-n-mitt wash. I then clayed with Ricardo clay and ONR as lube. This removed the actual mineral deposits, but I was disappointed to see that there was quite a bit of clear coat etching. This was going to be a good test of 205's correcting ability, for sure.
So the paint's condition was mediocre. Some wash induced marring, some clay marring, quite a bit of hard water etching, and a passenger door that had been scraped up by the movers. It was covered in RIDS. Supe wasn't happy, for sure.
M205 was applied by rotary with an Edge 2k red wave foam six inch pad, two applications. The first application was strictly for defect removal, using about 1k to 1.2k RPM's and moderate pressure. The next application was the finishing or "jeweling" application. I started at 1k RPM, increased to 1.5k rpm, then backed down to 1k rpm for the final couple passes, all using just the weight of the buffer. After each application, I used a terry cloth towel to wipe down the face of the pad. I think this is a very important step to using M205 or M105: keep the face of the pad completely clean. Keep the pores open, and free of polish or clear coat. If you do this, you will get great results and increase the defect removing power by a ton. Using terry cloth seems to remove the stuff out of the pores of the pad better than an MF. For me, at least.
I used one pad to do two applications on the entire car. Yup, one pad. Here's what it looked like when I was done:
I'm kinda embarrassed that there's black stuff on it, but it's from accidentally touching my black vinyl super bee stickers while buffing. My punishment for not taking the time to tape off the stickers.
Notice, though, that the pores are completely cleaned out. Once a pad is properly primed, if you keep the pores cleaned out like this, there's really no reason to change pads, especially since a primed pad works so much better than a fresh one.Proper pad priming and keeping the pores cleaned out really seem to be key to success with 105 and 205. I was able to finish out entirely holo free, but again I gotta put another qualifier on that statement: my paint is pretty darn hard.
So how did the 205 really perform? It completely removed all the defects, hard water etching, all the wash and clay marring, and did a darn fine job in diminishing the RIDS on the door. All in two applications with a zero bite foam pad. I am beyond impressed. It is so easy to use this stuff. Easy, easy, easy! And the results...for the level of gloss it leaves, you just wouldn't expect a polish to be able to do such a high level of defect correction. 205 doesn't leave a FPII or 85RD level of gloss, but to expect it to would be unreasonable, as it's not even in the same class. It does, however, leave a PO106FF level of gloss, but it has far, far more correcting ability than 106. It is also far easier to use than any of the Menz products. Not to mention about half the price!
I did an OCD hologram inspection afterward in bright sun. I used Prep Wash QD style to remove the M205 residue, and I followed that up with an IPA wipedown. I really wanted to make sure there wasn't any residue hiding any grams. Nada. Nothing but gorgeously shiny paint.
Hopefully, me changing things up a bit on how I used the 205 was the reason for finishing out holo-free, but I have a feeling it might also be because my paint is pretty hard. Next week, I'll be doing the wife's Toyota (pretty soft paint) the same way. If the Toyota finishes out holo-free, I'll be ordering 205 by the gallon.
Other stuff about yesterday's detail...
I gotta throw in a quick prop to Prep Wash. Until yesterday, I hadn't actually been using the product correctly. I'd been using it as part of a traditional wash. If I had bothered to actually read the directions, you can (and are supposed to) use it the same way you'd do an IPA wipedown: spray it on the paint, and wipe it off with an MF. Seriously good stuff.
I followed up with one coat of FK1 1000P. Then put on a second coat this morning. IME, it seems like the first coat of 1000P gives you a good, sealant kinda look. Then additional coats give the "thicker clear coat" effect, with three coats being optimum. 1000P also does seem to get much more durable with additional coats. More so, it seems, than a lot of other LSP's. One coat of 1000P seems to last a couple months, but three coats last longer than I can keep from touching the paint and either putting on more or switching to a different LSP.
I've seen a few threads about guys having trouble removing 1000P residue, and honestly until yesterday I thought you guys were nuts; I have always applied the first coat of 1000p with a DA, and have *never* had a problem removing the haze. Unfortunately, the doc says I'm still not allowed to use a DA yet, so I applied the first coat by hand. I had a heck of a time removing the residue. I can't seem to apply it as thinly by hand as by DA. Today's second coat went much easier. No doubt, though, that 1000P is best applied by DA for the first coat.
Lastly, using a good clay and lube really is important. ONR and Ricardo clay were able to remove some seriously bad water spots with minimal marring.
I *still* like my finishing wool, although it's getting very worn and it's gonna be hard to replace ) and zero bite foam for light correction and finishing. PFW on a rotary leaves (on most paints, and IMO) a better finish than cutting foam. That might be hard for DA guys to swallow, cause I've seen the mess that PFW can leave behind when used by DA, but IME it's true. Even on softer paints, PFW via rotary is cooler, quicker, cuts better, leaves a better finish than cutting foam.