World Series Game 5.....................

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imported_Kevin Brown

Jedi Master
I'm new to this forum. Have been reading on autopia car care for about one week now. I'm interested in removing the swirl marks on my black '99 Maxima. I heard that 3M SMR causes hazing on black cars. Am I better of with Finesse It II? Is Finesse It II more abrasive? Great forum. :)
 
I like 3M SMR By hand:

Apply a small amount (about the size of a quarter) to an applicator and rub back and forth into about a 1'X 1' section using light to

medium pressure until it starts to dry out. Then take a second towel and lightly rub

back and forth until the polish residue disappears and the gloss comes up. If there

are still some swirls visible you can repeat this step until they are minimal. I would recommend using a less aggressive product a couple times instead of using a more aggressive product once. After you have done the entire car you can Dawn wash and reapply your favorite wax/polish.



Remember.....Abrasives, no matter how fine, create new finer scratches, they should not be used often and only used when absolutely necessary.
 
Welcome to the forum,



3M Finesse It II Finishing Material is more abrasive than 3M Swirl Mark Remover.



Some people use 3M SMR or pinnacle Paintwork Clenasing Lotion following 3M Finesse It to reduce the haze. I personally have had no hazing from 3M Finesse It, but this was done to a dark blue Corolla and beige Camry.



How are you going to polish out the swirls on yuor Maxima? Hand, DA polisher, or rotary?



Jason
 
I used 3M SMR on my Maxima, which is a very dark green (almost black) and on my Lexus (very dark blue), and didn't have any problems with hazing. I've since also used Perfect-It II Fine Cut rubbing compound (more aggressive) trying to get rid of some acid rain etching. The SMR did a great job getting rid of medium swirl marks on the Lexus.



I've not used the Finnesse-It. Many here do use it, but since I'm working by hand (or a cheap orbital buffer,still no Porter Cable 7424 :( ) I've not tried it. Some here say they use it by hand, but 3M recommends it to be used by machine, I believe becasue it requires a certain amount of heat build-up to be effective.



You may have some hazing with any polishing material. The trick is to use the least aggressive (abrasive) material you can to do the job, and then follow it with less aggressive materials until you only have shine left. In any case, I wouldn't recommend using a true glaze or filler, which simply covers/fills the marks, but to use a material which actually will remove them.



You might want to browse the archives here, especially the detailing tips/articles section.



Blue skies,

Andy
 
I'm confused now. SMR causes hazing. If I use SMR then I used should Finesse It II to clear the haze caused by the SMR. We are refering to 3M Finesse It II Finishing Material(MAchine Polish). I'm about to order the Klasse twins. Will the Klasse AIO remove the hazing caused by SMR? I will be doing all detailing by hand with MF towels. Thanks for the replies everyone. Much needed help. :)
 
Think of it this way:

3M <strong class='bbc'>Finesse-It[/b] 2 Finishing Material:
-Removes swirl marks, minor oxidation, and fine scratches. <em class='bbc'>May[/i] leave a haze on <em class='bbc'>black[/i] cars.

3M <strong class='bbc'>Perfect-It Swirl Mark Remover[/b]:
-Less abrasive than <strong class='bbc'>Finesse-It[/b], and will remove the haze caused from <strong class='bbc'>Finesse-It[/b].

<strong class='bbc'>Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion[/b] also removes the haze from <strong class='bbc'>Finesse-It[/b] on <em class='bbc'>black cars[/i]. <strong class='bbc'>Klasse AIO[/b] <em class='bbc'>might[/i], too!

So all in all, use Perfect-It or a similar product after Finesse-It to remove the haze (caused by Finesse-It, not Perfect-It.)

~bw
 
BW, will Perfect It SMR cause hazing on black cars just like Finesse It II? I read on this forum that Perfect It SMR causes hazing after buffing it out. BW or anyone else confirm this?
 
No, Perfect It SMR is nearly impossible to cause hazing on black cars, or at least on my cars. I find it too mild to even tackle the mildest of swirls.
 
and doesn't confuse you further.

I used SMR on my black car and every panel took on a grayish haze. Others have reported this as well. I was sure I was doing something wrong but kept at it. As I've read here before and have to think it's true, when you remove the larger, circular swirl marks you end up with smaller ones that either absorb or refract the light, (I don't remember exactly but maybe someone else can bail me out on the light issue) causing the grayish haze. The SMR and a foam pad by hand is what I used and had good luck after some R & D. Most panels required two and some three applications going from front to rear, not circular and not up and down. All the panels shine up nice from the SMR but the grayish haze was still visable from certain angles. After the first and then second coat of AIO per area the haze was gone and things somewhat started to come together from there. I've yet to try thr Finesse It2, if you plan on using the both of them as steps then I would use the FI2 first. try a test on a rocker panel or some where out of plain sight.
 
I can attest to the fact that SMR causes hazing. I used it on my fathers '88 royal blue cutlass ciera. I did a small section of the hood with multiple coats. It did an amazing job of removing the swirls. But it also left a haze. I have yet to order my klasse kit(I know, I'm taking forever). But once I get it I'll test it out on the old car and see if it(the AIO) removes the hazing.
 
Thats strange because I find that SMR doesn't do much at alls to remove swirls and removes the haze from Finesse-It.



May this be only on particular paints?
 
I think you could be right BW about the "particular paints". Some seem to have a hazing problem and some don't. SMR worked well on my car to remove the swirls if not take them down to less than visable but I did have the haze issue that the AIO cleared up. I had swirl marks prior to the SMR that were very noticeable. I was happy with the end result but for the fall redo I'd like to try the FI2.
 
BW, I hope SMR is not paint specific. I plan to use it on german paint. The hazing on the old car is very hard to notice, but it is there. I'll do the same test again on the new car and see what the rsults are.
 
Still confusing. :) SMR could be paint sensitive. So it hazes on domestic paint. What about German and Japanese? SMR might cause hazing but AIO will remove the haze. Correct? Finesse It II will haze and SMR or AIO will remove the haze? v85097, foam pad not a foam applicator? Hook, you used SMR on your Maxima and no hazing. Correct?
 
Now y'all are starting to worry me . . . I'm tackling a swirled '92 T-bird (black) this weekend using the PC for the first time. I had read about possible hazing on dark colors with Finesse-It II, but assumed that SMR would clear up the haze. Now I see some posters have had hazing using the SMR. Is there another 3M product that can be used to follow Finesse-It II that doesn't have the hazing problem? The finish sealant will be Liquid Glass or Zaino, so AIO probably isn't the right choice (I've read some have gotten rid of the haze with a couple of applications of AIO).



I'm going to purchase the 3M products that I might need to handle some friends' cars that range from good shape to "bleah" . . . I had planned buying the following:



3Mâ„¢ Perfect-Itâ„¢ II Rubbing Compound, 16 oz, PN 39002

3Mâ„¢ Finesse-Itâ„¢ II Finishing Material, 16 oz, PN 39003

3Mâ„¢ Perfect-Itâ„¢ Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirlmark Remover, 16 oz, PN 39009



What else (if anything) should I have on hand to take care of possible hazing?



Thanks for any advice,

Tort
 
that the SMR #39009, is likely to haze on a dark colored finish. I have used this product on a dark burgundy (sp?) finish. I found it to be mild, requiring 2 or 3 attempts at removing a very minor hairline scratch. At the time that I used the SMR, I had limited products in "my bag of tricks", and therefore followed it with a 3M product called "Finish Restorer" to help in the haze removal.



Since you state that you do not want to use the AIO (which is unfortunate, because I have found 2 coats of the AIO to be excellent at haze removal), order the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing lotion, as this is rather mild, and see if that will address the haze. It certainly will not harm the finish.



I am a little surprised that this seems like somewhat of a surprise to some, that these products can cause hazing. I guess because it does not come up on a very regular basis, I figured most were aware of this issue and addressing it accordingly. Fortunately the Forum exists, and we are able to share experiences and concerns.
 
The hazing is caused by the fine lines that are created in the paint when using any of the above mentioned polishes. These lines coupled with the angle and intensity of the sun's light make it appear as though your paint is hazy. If you're going the zaino route, then you may not need to use a finer product to remove the haze. From what I understand about zaino(DK, correct me if I'm wrong), it has some filling ability. With that said, then it it may be safe to assume that zaino will fill in these new fine lines that the smr created, thus eliminating the haze.



One thing I like to do is test products out on small sections of the car first, then if I like the results, I'll do the whole car.



Another thing I wanted to mention/ask. Many people have said that Finesse it causes hazing, and that smr has cleared it up. But are you guys sure that the smr didn't replace FI's haze with it's own less noticeable haze?



Just curious.



Take it easy guys.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by arcticwhite [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Since you state that you do not want to use the AIO (which is unfortunate, because I have found 2 coats of the AIO to be excellent at haze removal), order the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing lotion, as this is rather mild, and see if that will address the haze. It certainly will not harm the finish.
[/b]</blockquote>
I have nothing against AIO (never tried it); it's just that my friend is probably going the Zaino route in the long term, but for now, he's looking for something inexpensive in the short term (car is going into storage for three months), and he happens to have some Liquid Glass on hand. Since we're planning to tackle the car on Sat., I don't believe there would be time to order PPCL online and be reasonably sure that it would be here by then. 3M products, OTOH, are readily available locally, which is why I was hoping there might be another option from them.

Another possibilty: HiTemp is local to me; if someone knows of a product in their lineup that you would recommend for this issue, please share . . .

Thanks,
Tort
 
I think the majority of us would still urge you to use Klasse or Zaino. I cannot give specific advice on Klasse, but I am sure it is superior to the product you mention.



I do use Zaino and can say it is vastly superior to any other products I have used and it is easier to maintain: you don't have to apply it every 3-6 weeks like a wax (but, if you do, its easy and the gloss will become amazing).
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by darbh [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I think the majority of us would still urge you to use Klasse or Zaino. I cannot give specific advice on Klasse, but I am sure it is superior to the product you mention.

I do use Zaino and can say it is vastly superior to any other products I have used and it is easier to maintain: you don't have to apply it every 3-6 weeks like a wax (but, if you do, its easy and the gloss will become amazing). [/b]</blockquote>
darbh,

I use Zaino myself, as has my friend in the past. The reason for not doing so now is that he's pretty much broke from purchasing the new car (no $ to restock the Z-products), and he's going TDY to Saudi shortly anyway. He will return to Zaino after he returns from overseas, but for now, he has Liquid Glass on hand. LG is a polymer sealant, and while I'm sure it may not be the quality of Zaino or Klasse, it should be fine to protect a stored vehicle for a few months. I've seen it recommended in the archives as an inexpensive alternative, and I've used it myself with some success in the past. I'd say it's *easier* to apply/remove than Zaino, but I don't believe you can layer it, and it does attract dust like crazy for a few days.

I'm still trying to get him to just use my Z1 and Z2 for now; put one coat on, and then he can buy all the Z he needs when he returns and just start applying new coats. We'll see.

Tort
 
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