Why use a wax on top of a polymer sealant?

TortoiseAWD

New member
Has anyone else tried one of these sprayers for QD application? I snagged the one I had in my kitchen, cleaned it out, and tried it with Z6 today. Big :up, I like! I felt like it gave better coverage than most of the sprayers I've tried, and it was a lot easier to control.

I'll have to get another one for the kitchen . . . as nice as Z6 smells, something tells me the flavor won't go well with olive oil. :D

Have a good weekend, everyone . . .

Tort
 
i personally love teh Meguiars spray bottles. the burgandy ones such as the Quick Detailer. after u finish using it, u jsut wash it out and put whatever u want in it. i also plan to put my Z6 in it after i get my new zaino stuff shipped to me. the Meguiars bottle is easy to hold and squeeze. sprays a very fine mist and nicely controlled area of spray too.
 
I didn't care for the spray pattern from the bottle of EF Clear Pearl, so I did what Ng Luder suggests; cleaned out a used Meguiars QD bottle (burgandy) and poured the Clear Pearl into it. Much better spray pattern IMHO.
 
TortoiseAWD, what's the quality like and have you ordered online from them before? What's the turn around time?



Thanks for the heads up!
 
Zep professional Spray bottle...only $2.99 from Home Depot. Very good trigger and adjustable spray. I can cover my hood in 2 sprays!



Huy
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by jazzyjack [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>TortoiseAWD, what's the quality like and have you ordered online from them before? What's the turn around time?
[/b]</blockquote>Sorry, I haven't ordered from them online before . . . my gf bought this sprayer from someone at her work that had a Pampered Chef party. I can't really comment on the quality of their products in general; just don't have much experience with their stuff. I know several people who have either hosted parties or bought from them before, though, and I've never heard anyone complain.

I'm pretty sure that pump sprayers similar to the one in the link I posted are available from WalMart, K-Mart, Target, etc. as well, if you'd rather not order online.

BTW, several replies in this thread have recommended the Meguair's Quik Detailer (red bottle) sprayer. I agree; I've tried that sprayer (I have the spray head on one of the bottles of my Z6), and I like it, too. I think it has a better spray pattern overall than the pump sprayer, but I really like the control of the push-button on the pump-sprayer over the traditional squeeze trigger. I also prefer the smaller physical size of the pump (as compared to a typical 12 or 16 oz sprayer), too; it's easier for me to juggle it and a MF towel as I QD, and it's small enough to tuck into a jeans pocket if I should need both hands.

Tort
 
Some detailers find that a polymer sealant tends have a flat, silvered mirror look. Adding a Carnauba wax to the surface provides depth of shine, gloss, jetting (the so called ?wet look?) and a warmth to the paint surfaces overall look. Bear in mind that how a paint surface ?looks? is very subjective and tends to invoke an emotional reaction rather than a logical one 95% of an applied wax comprises out gassed solvent that is wiped away, whereas 65% of a polymer sealant that is applied remains.

Detailers who prepare show cars will often layer a Carnauba wax on top of a synthetic wax; the synthetic wax acts as a gloss layer, while the carnauba wax adds depth and a wet-looking (jetting) appearance

Polymer sealants


Need a porous surface to bond to, they initially adhere by surface tension and then after a period in which the solvents /oils in the carrier system vaporize (outgas) the polymers cross-link to form a covalent (molecular) bond to the surface. This process usually requires 12-24 hours, which are time and temperature and / or humidity dependent.

Note that drying and curing are two different processes. Drying generally refers to evaporation of the solvent or thinner, whereas curing (cross-linking) refers to polymerization of the binder, which imparts adhesion, binds the pigments together, and strongly influences such properties as gloss potential, exterior durability, flexibility, and toughness.

When polymer chains are linked together extensively by chemical cross linking - the formation of covalent bonds between chains; the polymer is harder and more difficult to melt. Curing is required to allow the monomers (polymer building blocks) to attach to the surface and to polymerize into a crystal-clear, impervious film.

It is very important to allow polymers to cure for 12 hours after the haze has been wiped off. If the coating is exposed to contamination such as oil, rain, water, cleaners, etc. before it has cross-linked, the contaminants may interfere with the film, preventing the polymer from achieving its maximum performance and durability. A polymer, unlike wax forms a molecular bond with paint once it?s had enough time to cross-linking, usually 12 ? 24 hour.

A unique aspect of polyurethane chemistry is that the hydrogen bonding acts as an additional crosslink, but also allows thermoplastic flow, which helps the paint surface to retain its elasticity and its tensile strength to relieve mechanical stress. The basic structure of a polyurethane clear coat features a soft segment (polyol or tetramethylene ether) which gives it flexibility and elasticity. There is also a hard segment (polymerization) that has high urethane density, which gives the coating hardness and tensile strength

Carnauba wax

Carnauba in today's wax formulas functions mostly as a carrier; it?s used to keep the polymers and oils on your car's surface. Only a small portion of your vehicle's shine comes from the wax itself. Carnauba is translucent at best with only minimal light reflection. It is among the hardest of natural waxes, being harder than concrete in its pure form

This sacrificial barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants and the paint film surface and this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.1 ? (100 nm, 0.000 4 Mils or 0.000 004 inch) thick. An applied paint protection product is the barrier that provides protection for automotive paintwork besides the clear coat paint.

An organic wax also provides a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability)


? TOGWT ? Ltd Copyright 2002-2010, all rights reserved
 
TOGWT;32199 [B said:
Polymer sealants [/B]

Need a porous surface to bond to, they initially adhere by surface tension and then after a period in which the solvents /oils in the carrier system vaporize (outgas) the polymers cross-link to form a covalent (molecular) bond to the surface. This process usually requires 12-24 hours, which are time and temperature and / or humidity dependent.

I guess polymer sealants are useless on nonporous surfaces like glass, polished paint.
 
if i understand you correctly, in the process of my polymer sealant curing i shouldn't allow outside contaminents touch the paint. well i don't have a garage, just a carport. so how am i to keep these things off my car in the 12-24 hr curing process. a car cover has the potential of introducing more scratches, thereby ruining the hours i just spent getting my car to this point.
 
I guess polymer sealants are useless on nonporous surfaces like glass, polished paint.

A polyurethane polymer cannot form a molecular bond with glass. An acrylic (Klasse) or a Silane (G-Techniq ) polymer works better on non-porous surfaces like glass

Most automotive paints are polymer based so a polyurethane polymer sealant will bond to it
 
A polyurethane polymer cannot form a molecular bond with glass. An acrylic (Klasse) or a Silane (G-Techniq ) polymer works better on non-porous surfaces like glass ...

Actually that makes some sense + Bunky, thanks for the question. I recently did the glass/sealant thing after reading comments by others doing it. Now I know why I wasn't impressed when I went through a recent rain storm. :doh: I assumed I had done something wrong.
 
glfahlc, I think you're fine in the carport. I think sealant cross linking is compromised if the vehicle is directly exposed to rain within that 12 to 24 hour period.
 
glfahlc, I think you're fine in the carport. I think sealant cross linking is compromised if the vehicle is directly exposed to rain within that 12 to 24 hour period.

The majority of a polymer matrix cross-links within 30 ? 45 minutes of the application drying; by swipe your finger across the paint surface, if it?s dry and the product doesn?t smear, remove residue by buffing with a clean dry micro fibre towel. However it is recommended that a period of 12-24 hours is allowed for the cross-linking process to complete, otherwise polymerization and durability may be compromised.

Although it should be noted that surface oils, silicone and / or moisture introduced before the cross-linking process is complete will interfere with the bonding of a polymer and will negatively affect its durability

Cross-linking has the effect of changing a plastic from thermoplastic to thermosetting. Thus, it also increases strength, heat and electrical resistance, and especially resistance to solvents and other chemicals. All polymer- based sealants require time to cross-link before you can apply an additional coat or other products with good results.

The time a polymer takes to form a monocular bond and / or if additional layers can be applied depends on a number of factors, including the type and amount of solvent used, the type of polymers, and other ingredients used in the emulsion system suspending the polymers.
 
A polyurethane polymer cannot form a molecular bond with glass. An acrylic (Klasse) or a Silane (G-Techniq ) polymer works better on non-porous surfaces like glass

Most automotive paints are polymer based so a polyurethane polymer sealant will bond to it

Polymer sealants

Need a porous surface to bond to, they initially adhere by surface tension and then after a period in which the solvents /oils in the carrier system vaporize (outgas) the polymers cross-link to form a covalent (molecular) bond to the surface. This process usually requires 12-24 hours, which are time and temperature and / or humidity dependent.

The way you state this it sounds like no polymer sealant will adhere to paint or glass. For example, Blackfire should adhere to paint and glass. Your write up seems to need some rewording.

People put natural waxes on sealants because 1) they can or 2) they like some aspect of the look of a natural waxes.
 
TOGWT-

Where are you getting the information you are posting? Most of the contents in sealants are proprietary, though you are making statements about how and when molecular bonds are forming.
 
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