Why is this happening to me !!! - Foam Pad Trauma

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05corolla

New member
So I have a set of the new CCS pads from Lake Country and they work fabulous. EXCEPT for after the second use of them after I cleaned them in lukeworm water, the velcro backing starts to come off. This happened on 3 pads so I called the vendor and they promptly sent me a new set. Now they new set is doing it too!! This really upsets me and I dont know what to do about it!



I am tempted just to ditch velcro all together and go for the edge kit, I like the velcro if it just wouldn't fall apart.



Can anyone explain this!!
 
So, you cleaned them with water only? If so, I don't think the cleaning process could be causing the problem. Do you use the pads again while they're still wet?



Honestly, I'm not sure what could be causing your problem. I got sick of all the problems I had with velcro pads and ditched them for the Edge 2000 system. I haven't had a single problem since then and have been 110% (not a type-o) happy.
 
Is the pad getting really warm while you are using it? That might be weakening the bond between the foam and the hook & loop backing. But you would probably notice the bond being loose before you wash it too. $.02
 
35TH LE said:
Oh boy... I have a set coming right now. I hope I dont have this problem.
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me too!



It does happen from time to time. The vendor has to take them back and replace it.



How does it work otherwise?
 
Besides the velcro problem they work fabulously!! But no, I don't machine wash them and I have only used water because they weren't that dirty and the Menzerna compound I was using was water based and it washed right out.
 
I have a few LC CCS pads and one that has seen a lot of use. I also handwash the pads. The only pads I have had issues with are the Propel P2's seperating a bit at the scalloped edge.



-GT
 
Just like a new model car, anytime you buy a new version of anything you run the risk of working out the bugs. HOWEVER, one would think these pads went under extreme tests before they were released to the public. MAYBE NOT. I have washed my old style LC pads 12-15 times in the washer and it has never been an issue of velcro coming loose.
 
I've had this problem with my old LC pads that are used on the PC, though this is after sevral uses, the backing starts to come away... I suspect (though am not 100% sure) using them on the PC at speed 6 may be a part cause (heat generation), and I know Meguiars dont recommend using their pads at over speed 5 on the PC for this very reason.



My Meguiars pads on the rotary have been spot on though, including the cutting pads I use for OP knock back at above 2000rpm.
 
Well this is the first I have heard of this. Is this a plug to sell the "Edge" system or is it an honest problem?

I would think that if you had this kind of problem, you contacted Lake Country for there input. What did they have to say?

Saying these kind of things about a manufacturer could severely cripple his product in the market, I believe he would probably consider it "Slander" unless it can be easily proved.



I'm now in the market now for some of the CCS pads by Lake Country, now I have to stop my buying, contact them and do more research to find out if this is a real problem or what!! See what I mean!

Changeling
 
Changeling said:
Well this is the first I have heard of this. Is this a plug to sell the "Edge" system or is it an honest problem?

I would think that if you had this kind of problem, you contacted Lake Country for there input. What did they have to say?

Saying these kind of things about a manufacturer could severely cripple his product in the market, I believe he would probably consider it "Slander" unless it can be easily proved.



I'm now in the market now for some of the CCS pads by Lake Country, now I have to stop my buying, contact them and do more research to find out if this is a real problem or what!! See what I mean!

Changeling
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I've heard of delamination from several pad manufacturers... LC are the ones I've had delaminate, though like I said this was on old pads, not new ones... Other pads that folk I detail with in the UK have had problems with have been LC 4" cutting pads (also a prob with foam disintegration, this was put down to a bad batch and pads were replaced very quickly by the supplier and no further issues have been experienced yet), and Sonus SFX 4" pads....
 
Changeling said:
Well this is the first I have heard of this. Is this a plug to sell the "Edge" system or is it an honest problem?

I would think that if you had this kind of problem, you contacted Lake Country for there input. What did they have to say?

Saying these kind of things about a manufacturer could severely cripple his product in the market, I believe he would probably consider it "Slander" unless it can be easily proved.



I'm now in the market now for some of the CCS pads by Lake Country, now I have to stop my buying, contact them and do more research to find out if this is a real problem or what!! See what I mean!

Changeling
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You are crazy, I am not trying to harm their reputation at all, I said that they are wonderful pads but I am having an issue. I have contacted the appropriate people to have this matter taken care of. And if you consider what I am saying as slander perhaps I should just send you pics of the pads I have that have fallen apart. Lake Country does make good quality pads, I am not debating that I am just trying to find out why this is happening. If you can't get your story straight before making harsh assupmtions, please abstain from posting ridiculous comments like that. This forum is all about discussing what products work and don't, and none of it is slander. And don't even begin to acuse me of spamming for Edge because I have never tried their products and wouldn't support something I know nothing about.
 
Changeling said:
Well this is the first I have heard of this. Is this a plug to sell the "Edge" system or is it an honest problem?

I would think that if you had this kind of problem, you contacted Lake Country for there input. What did they have to say?

Saying these kind of things about a manufacturer could severely cripple his product in the market, I believe he would probably consider it "Slander" unless it can be easily proved.



I'm now in the market now for some of the CCS pads by Lake Country, now I have to stop my buying, contact them and do more research to find out if this is a real problem or what!! See what I mean!

Changeling
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:har: :har:

heard of what pads comming apart or the edge system?

(I know you are busy but try a search!)



if you read his post he did contact the manufacture
 
I find that it's all PC based - my rotary-only yellow and black pads have seen many cars and get machine washed, and the velcro backing on them shows no sign of fading. The pads that see both PC and rotary use (green, white, orange) go through an identical wash routine, and seem to fail several times faster. Maybe hand washing would extend the life of the PC pads, but there is no question in my mind that using the PC accelerates pad failure significantly over using a rotary.



Cyclo pads fail pretty quickly too



edit: I just thought of something, it might be the pressure you use on the machine. When using the rotary, I use light pressure at most, and 90% of the time, just the weight of the machine. When I use the PC or Cyclo I put a good chunk of pressure on it (10-20lbs PC, 40+lbs Cyclo).
 
I just brought up points to consider!

I didn't hear a single response on what the Manufacturer (LC) had to say!

If you want to condemn me for questioning things by addressing your statements without Manufacturer input, so be it !

I don't feel anything I said should be considered hostile, or wrong!

Before blasting me, why don't you just email "LC", and let them provide an outlet for your being disgruntled on there product performance ? I really don't think it's fair to consider the place you purchased the product from to hear all your complaints, even if they do a replacement, thats to there creditability which appears to be impeccable!

You are doing what is considered as "Shooting the Messenger" when you should be going to the source!

Think about it!!

Changeling
 
themightytimmah said:
edit: I just thought of something, it might be the pressure you use on the machine. When using the rotary, I use light pressure at most, and 90% of the time, just the weight of the machine. When I use the PC or Cyclo I put a good chunk of pressure on it (10-20lbs PC, 40+lbs Cyclo).
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I think it is about fundamental difference in path pattern between random orbital and rotary and that gets just amplified when increasing the pressure. As you use rotary there is a tension on material between surface that is on the paint and surface on backing pad created by friction between pad and paint. It is getting pulled, but it is pulled in one direction, no changes. Increased pressure down will increase pull but still there are no changes in direction being pulled.



Now imagine path of random orbital. It keeps changing direction which means it keeps changing direction in which material is being pulled. Take a sponge at home and try to simulate that pattern. You will see you are practically tearing sponge apart. Increase the "friction" by applying more "pressure" (which means increase severity of pull direction change) and tearing will be exponentially amplified / accelerated. Any material exposed to such treatment would eventually fail or separate at weakest point or point where two materials with two different properties meet, which would be at glue point.
 
ZoranC said:
I think it is about fundamental difference in path pattern between random orbital and rotary and that gets just amplified when increasing the pressure. As you use rotary there is a tension on material between surface that is on the paint and surface on backing pad created by friction between pad and paint. It is getting pulled, but it is pulled in one direction, no changes. Increased pressure down will increase pull but still there are no changes in direction being pulled.



Now imagine path of random orbital. It keeps changing direction which means it keeps changing direction in which material is being pulled. Take a sponge at home and try to simulate that pattern. You will see you are practically tearing sponge apart. Increase the "friction" by applying more "pressure" (which means increase severity of pull direction change) and tearing will be exponentially amplified / accelerated. Any material exposed to such treatment would eventually fail.
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ZoranC, great response, this could/does make sense, at least it's plausible and a realistic reason that might be associated with the problems some individuals say they are having.

I still would like to see the "persons" having the problems have a factory representative address the forum to explain the problems.

No manufacture is going to not recognize problems with a product, this is product "DEATH"!!!

But, it's the responsibility of the individuals having the problem to make the complaint and request a response to the forum itself.

Without question this forum sells a hell of a lot of product for a lot of companies, I am fairly sure they would like any concerns the consumer might have answered.

All you have to do is contact them with your problem/forum name/whatever!

Changeling
 
Changeling, please notice that while you are correct in principle you are coming too strong too early. If there is anybody out there that is AR about such principles it is me, and eevn I feel you are firing off too quick.



Also, please notice that even a perfect product has some "defect rate". There is no such thing as absolutely perfect. On top of that, what makes a world of difference is customer service, how resellers/distributors/manufacturer treat customer that does experience an issue. My experience with these vendors is very limited but from what I see detailing enthusiast community has providers with such outstanding customer service I could only dream about in other areas of my life. So as long as they are commited to resolving problem and taking care of customers I will be fine, and there is nothing that indicates they will not be as ProperAutoCare and LC have reputation (from what I hear, I am open to stand corrected by those that do have much more knowledge and experience than I do) of taking care of business.



CCS pads are on my "to buy soon" list. If I experience laminating I will say it. If I experience bad customer service I will say it. In the meantime there is not enough data to be jumping to conclusions in any direction.
 
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