Why did the PC not work hard enough?

M

Mitchubishievo

New member
Guys, I detailed a very badly swirled and scratched 98 Camry today, dark blue in color. I went through a lot of polishes and ended up using SSR3 and the Orange Propel pad. It got quite a few of the swirls out, but there were still small ones all over the car, even after following up with SSR 1 on a green pad. What gives? I used good technique, working in small areas and moving about 1"/second on the first 2 passes at speed 4 and then about 4"/second at speed 6. I even went and tried Optimum Polish and 3M SMR...no beans. Someone please help me because I want to give up on the PC and I know it should work better than it did today considering I used the hardest pad and the toughest SMR Poorboys makes...I mean I did 3 passes on some panels :soscared: .
 
Can you post any pics?



Small thin swirls should come out?



All your tools and pads and towels are perfectly clean?



I would try SSR 2.5 and a polishing pad. Put alittle pressure into it, and let off after a couple passes.
 
Even though the PC is a miraculous tool, it has its limits. Sometimes, there are just swirls that are too bad for the PC to get out. This, of course, is the worse case scenario and doesn't necessarily mean *you* are at that point yet. There may still be more you can do.



Sometimes it just takes multiple passes over the same areas before the desired results are seen. You mentioned seeing swirls even after SSR1, well if you don't get them out with the more aggressive polish (SSR3), they are going to keep coming back to haunt you later on. SSR1 doesn't remove swirls, it just beautifies as a finishing polish. All of your cutting work needs to be done in the very first step before you move on, in your case that would be the SSR3 and the orange pad.



A couple questions, how much product were you using? How long did you polish before adding more product to the pad? After polishing with SSR3, what step was next? What towels did you use? This has to be asked to correctly assess your problem.
 
Sorry no pics, but the customer picked up his car and was astonished with the work I did. I told him I'd polish it again for half price once I got a rotary and he said "to hell with that, I'll pay full...this is awesome". "Thanks, but it could be way better" is what was going through my mind. Everything was clean and nothing touched my spotless epoxy floor. And I did try 2.5 with a green pad...it was my first combo...no go. And it's funny...the huge swirls came out, but the smaller ones were still there along with tons of these scratch marks...is that marring?
 
I used enough product to make a circle one inch away from the edge of the pad and didn't really add any more as I was able to work the polish for a few minutes no problem...it would start to dust like MAD after that though. After SSR3, I went to SSR1 and I used Pakshak MF towels.
 
Okay, three things I am noticing already:



First, what you want to do is try to use enough polish on the pad to keep you polishing a good 2x2 area for a few minutes before starting to dust. By giving yourself more working time, you will remove the defects more effectively. You can also increase working time by decreasing the PC speed a little bit to say speed 5 instead of 6. This does kind of the same thing as adding more polish to the pad. The trick is finding the proper amount of polish, proper speed, and proper working time to get the defects out.



Second, try not to continue polishing once the polish starts to dust. Once it dusts, all you are doing is marring the surface (creating your own swirls).



Last, I am thinking that the jump from SSR3 to SSR1 was too big. I'd recommend an intermediate step in there like SSR2. I've heard of people going from SSR2.5 to 1 but never 3 to 1.



Hope this helps.
 
Thanks man, I was wondering if I was doing damage by going over some fo the dust. I had no idea I should work the polish longer than I already was considering all of the caking that was going on. Thanks alot.
 
Well, I wouldn't say that you are doing *damage* by polishing beyond the dusting point, but it certainly doesn't help.



You can work the polish as long as you need to in order to get the job done. You mentioned caking just now, and that's another reason I am thinking you are using too high of a speed. I find that some polishes cake up extremely fast on speed 6 and other do great. When I run into this problem, I cut the speed down to 5 and keep a pad cleaning tool handy, and a spare pad to switch out to about halfway through the detail. The orange pad does tend to cake easily too because it's such a hard pad. I find that the softer ones just absorb the polish, but the orange pad keeps it right there on the surface.



In a nutshell, I think the product wasn't worked long enough due to the fact that it dried up on you so fast.



Give this a try next time and let us know if it makes a difference for you. I'm also sure you've learned that detailing takes a great deal of patience. It isn't uncommon to spend 30 minutes to an hour on a hood alone, so patience is the key. The PC is extremely safe, but it does take quite a bit more time to get the job done correctly.
 
I have had much better sucess getting out swrils and scratches using a 4 inch spot buff pad followed up by a 6.5 inch pad. The PC has limits but with a 4 inch pad and small areas you can get most anything that you can not feel with your fingernail out.
 
Patience indeed...and you are right, when I went to clean the orange pad, it cleaned right away, proving that the polish doesn't soak into the pad. Zippymbr, I was just looking at spot pads online ;). Once again, thank you everyone, and especially Jdookie, for all the advice; I'll make sure to take even more time the next go around.
 
Informative thread.

I too am about ready to give up on the PC. I spend hours the other day and saw very little improvement. I'm going to go for the 4" pads and work it even longer. It's confusing. I'm told not to use too much product, then after reading this I realize I need to use more product. Mine turned to dust after a minute or so. As long as I'm not hurting the paint, I'll keep trying.
 
I find that the orange pad works alot better for me if i spread the product on the surface (of the pad)with my fingers initially.



The orange pad is hard to get primed and the reaction is to want to use more and more polish.



If i make sure it is primed well, maybe doing the above a couple times, then i can switch from a circle of polish to just a line of polish on the pad.



Too much polish gums up and causes dust, too little drys out to fast and dusts.



I would try speed 4, then once the polish is breaking down alittle bump it up to 5. I find speed 6 isnt suitable for alot of heavy polishes.
 
If you are doing your own car at home, the PC can work miracles because you will have the time available to make up for its lack of power. If you are working professionally and charging money, then time is money and you need to get a rotary and learn to use it.





Tom
 
Asmodaus, its better to use too much than too little.



Also, when I find I'm not removing defects, I slow right down and use more polish.



I find that with most polishes speed 5, good polish coverage, arm linear speed of 1'/sec, and moderate pressure.



This allows the polish to work long enough on the problem before the abrasives break down and become useless.



I try and imagine/picture the abrasives while I'm working, and how they change when I change an element.



I know, I know...too much CSI! :rolleyes:
 
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