Why am i getting holograms

J

jeteast99

New member
I have a black bmw that i have been using my new makita on but the thing is i am getting holograms. whats the correct process to avoid holograms? I have been using OP on an orange pad at 1500 followed by OPS at 1000 on a white ccs pad? Should i be using the OPS on a green pad?
 
I would use the Optimum Polish with the white CCS pad and finish with a softer pad like the

blue or black LC pad I really like the LC pads but notto fond of the CCS line.

I like the flat DA pads for the rotary. You just need a less aggressive pad.



If you can find a 100ppi pad this is nice to finish with. American Buffing makes them.

I'm trying to convince LC to produce one. I have a prototype they sent me and it is fantastic.

The results ar excellent with Optimum or Menzerna.
 
I thought a blue pad was only for applying waxes and sealants but i will give it a try. i was working on my car today and tried some poorboy products that i havent used in a while. 2.5 on orange pad at 1500 and 1(? the pink stuff) on a white pad at 1500 produced no holograms. But it produces so much dust. But will give OP on white and OPS on blue a shot
 
I see. I was just curious.

The rotary is a funny thing. Once you get it, you'll just get it. I'm not saying you shouldn't try different pads and products, just that technique plays a larger role in the finish you get with a rotary. Which is totally different from a DA in my mind. Most people get a DA right away and pad/product choice for various paints is more the question that needs answering.
 
The blue is for the finest finishing of paint with a really fine polish or glaze.

With every product, do one vertical and horizontal pass at 900 to finish up. that will break down the product better and leave a nicer finish
 
VaSuperShine said:
orange & op @1500 shouldn't leave holograms.
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I'll readily admit that it's probably my (less-than-wonderful) skill level, but OP/LC orange *did* leave holograms on the '97 M3. OP even left light ones when used with a *white* LC pad..and yeah, I tried all the usually suggested tweaks to my technique :nixweiss



I'll probably still be finishing my work with the Cyclo for a good long time :o Not that it bothers me, but it would be nice to avoid extra steps. I take some solace in the fact that Mike Phillips has been using a rotary forever and a day, and *he* still finishes with the PC. If it's good enough for the Meguiar's product-application guy, I suppose it oughta be good enough for me.
 
i dunno i guess it's just different for everyone, im sure everything plays a factor. i get holograms with anything heavy cut, have yet to see any with (my) orange pads.
 
If it makes you feel better I have had to touch up the work of a pretty well known detailer on here. This a somebody who claims that they can finish a rotary but I have seen there work at it was hologrammed from hell.



Infact I am convinced that a lot of people on this boad simply don't know how to check for hologramming under every condition, or they don't pull there work in the sun and look. It can be impossible with certain paints to finish a dark color hologram free.
 
i don't see how you cant see them, if you see the paint well enough to remove swirl marks how can you not see the holograms? they are very visible when working in the sun like many here do. i guess there are variations and intensity levels where some very minor holograms could slip by even a trained eye.
 
Ive noticed light holograms reflexting off wax residue on the high end waxes (P21S etc). I always pull the vehicles into direct sunlight and check at all angles. Light holograms from wax/polish can be removed with a little light hand buffing.



Coincidentally one reason this is a VERY important step...



my biggest competitor in town has anniahlated about 4 car lots with his buffing technique. I did my first drive-by in awhile on a few of his lots and i could see the holograms without getting out of my truck!! I have a few demos scheduled for next week,(it was difficult to hide my horror at what I was seeing and reflect respect for a fellow "pro") my customer base is starting to figure out why I charge more then the other guys.
 
TH0001 said:
If it makes you feel better I have had to touch up the work of a pretty well known detailer on here. This a somebody who claims that they can finish a rotary but I have seen there work at it was hologrammed from hell.



Infact I am convinced that a lot of people on this boad simply don't know how to check for hologramming under every condition, or they don't pull there work in the sun and look. It can be impossible with certain paints to finish a dark color hologram free.
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I can only see them from my work, in direct sun. I would be happy to know how to see them under other lighting conditions. The surface looks wet and glossy--even flawless, with a dual xenon.
 
Well my technique is to find out what products will work on the car and do a front guard.

then take the car out in the sun and check for any holograms. 9 out of 10 it's like outer space. clear as.

With any menzerna finishing polish I have only ever gotten holograms by working it a little too long.

If you can make sure you don't work it too long or buff dry, you should not have a problem



I can finish down heaps of dark cars with a rotary if I finish with my favourite combo and use every pad from orange down to LC blue.
 
will possibly a polishing pad and light to medium polish on a DA be more effective than finishing on a finishing pad and light polish on the rotary? i know some cars are too hard, but i done hondas by finishing with the da completely hologram free.
 
Reflectionz said:
will possibly a polishing pad and light to medium polish on a DA be more effective than finishing on a finishing pad and light polish on the rotary? i know some cars are too hard, but i done hondas by finishing with the da completely hologram free.
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I don;t get this on other cars, but on my Black Lexus, the DA un-does some of the gloss I have achieved with the rotary, and instills a haze (Menzerna FPII and Lake COuntry white, grey or blue pads--same result) Otherwise, I would be happy to finish off the holograms with the DA.



I have come to the conclusion that the softness of the paint is part of the problem and that the LC pads, because of the sharp edges, instill the holograms with the rotary, and that the DA is just mushing the polish around, creating the marring. But this can be total BS. Best results I got were with finishing with the rotary with a Meg's tan pad (9006), my guess being that it has rounded edges. This theory is based on Mike Phillips who, if I recall corrrectly, said "use any pads you want, but make sure they are flat (not egg crate), and do not have squared off edges.



But...I have a pro coming over tday to work with me on technique, change me over to wool pads, etc, and hopefully take me up a level.
 
I've had very good results with the Green german CCS pad and the Megs yellow polishing pad with ZPC or FP2. I prefer a softer pad with the rotary.
 
wannafbody said:
I've had very good results with the Green german CCS pad and the Megs yellow polishing pad with ZPC or FP2. I prefer a softer pad with the rotary.
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I spent 4-5 hours with a pro today, and he got me straightened out on wool pads. I can finish now to hologram free gloss, on what i believe is pretty soft paint, with the rotary, using a wool leveling (polishing pad) and Menzerna Final Polish II. I am very pleased.
 
Is there another way of looking for holograms without direct sunlight?



I've noticed that fluorescent lighting and the mercury lamps from the street do an excellent job of making swirls visible...sometimes too good...LOL



Alex
 
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