When the Flex just won't work

S

skippy492

New member
i'm planning on using a synthetic polish(zaino, or klasse) but i'm hearing diff. people saying whether or not to add a coat of real wax on top, such as soverign. what do you think? will the extra step give that much better finish? i thought these polymers would equal the best carnubas. thanks
 
I haven't seen Blackfire yet, but Klasse and Zaino does not have the same depth as a good wax. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the shine and the protection is better and longer lasting, but topping them with wax makes a big difference in my eyes.



H
 
I use Zaino and I would agree that the Zaino does not give the same warm shine that some wax based products do.



Just keep this thread near the top and I'm sure someone will share his/her experiance with a wax top-off over a synthetic!



Again, very good question!
 
sorry for the added question here, but i've heard that once you put a carnuba over the synthetic, you shouldnt' put the synthetic over the carnuba again, unless you strip it off. if i do the carnuba over the klasse, wouldn't i just be limited to using carnuba from that point? thanks again. cool forum.
 
you do the Klasse..AIO...then SG...keep Sg'ing til you are happy with what your looking at(could be 5 times/coats) thats a personal thing.....then you can put Blitz for instance if you wanted to add to the Sg and keep it nice(deeper some say).....if you dawn...that takes off the Blitz as well as the SG...so you'd have to SG again and start all over til you get it the way you like....i think the blitz lasts about 2-3 wks...some people say longer/shorter....so ...your best bet is to not listen to a zaino guy like me because i could have this all screwed up....:D ...and do a search on something like wax over Klasse or sumthin like that......
 
Some people put a carnauba over a polymer like Klasse to make the paint have more wetness/depth.



Zaino is NOT supposed to be topped off with a carnauba only succesive coats of Z2/3/5.



The dawn will not strip the Klasse SG. Don tried to strip Klasse on his Maxima with Dawn and after 2 washes with it, the Klasse was still there. The Dawn may affect the durability of Sg to some degree, but it will not totally stip it off.



One Grand Blitz wax is the most durable carnauba wax I used, I can get 1 1/2 to 2 months on a daily driver. 4-6 on a garage queen. The Souveran is the wax that lasts about 2-4 weeks on a daily driver.



On the BMW 323 I detail, I only need to Klasse AIO/SG/Blitz it once a year. It only needs to be washed once a month or so. It is a garage queen. Only sees the sunlight twice a month.



The polymers/synthetics beat carnaubas in durability hands down. The synthetics do not give the warm look as carnaubas provide as mentioned previously. The carnauba topper on Klasse is mostly to add warmth/wetness that only carnaubas can give. The synthetics give a nice shine, but lack warmth/wetness.



Jason
 
There will be no need to put additional coats of Polymer on after you put the carnuba on. Just keep layering carnuba and your car will look great. I was putting a quick coat of blitz on once a month and it just kept looking better and better. Unless you have a white or silver car the wax topper definately makes a difference. Some people like the candy shine of polymers alone without wax. Personal choice really.
 
The wax gives the surface a softer look, almost like its been buttered. This increased depth of wax has been labeled "jetting". Either way the car looks great and is protected for months. I originally left the Klasse on its own and was quite happy. I put the Blitz or Souveran on to see for myself the difference. It looks better to me, however myself and a few others have been having difficulty with a haze forming using this combination. Whether of not the wax topper is the culprit has not been confirmed, but is highly suspect. This is one of the reasons I have chosen Blackfire as my next detail. It supposedly gives a similar look to the polymer/wax combo (jetting) but without the wax. We will see over the next several months, as I myself, as well as others here start to use the Blackfire product and report back and post pictures of the results...



H
 
zaino gets a deeper and deeper shine with each coat as it is layered so people would rather put another coat of zaino on then top it with a carnuba, which would limit you from layering on any more zaino till the carnuba was stripped.



It also defeats the purpose of the zaino product, being optically clear. Zaino preserves the actual color of your car and does not add a tint to it like some other synthetics or carnubas.



Shine is a personal preference. But for the record, when a car comes out of the paint booth with an $$$ expensive custom paint job, it does look like a zainoed car, not an oily wet carnuba shine. To me that is kind of "fake" looking, but it's funny because people that never saw a fresh paint job swear the zaino shine looks more "fake." The choice is yours.
 
I agree with you DK, my sons Accord is now half Zaino'd and half fresh paint and clear. You really can't tell which is which. So I agree that Zaino gives the finish a "just painted" look. Very nice and liquid. I just used Blackfire on my Mustang truck lid and since I haven't used Zaino before on the Mustang, I can't really compare it. But it is at least a good as the Klasse that is on adjacent panels. I'm not convinced yet about the "jetting" factor which is one of the reasons I wanted to try Blackfire. But I will be putting an additional 3 coats on tomorrow and wil let you know my opinion and try to post a fes pics.



H
 
I would go with the carnauba topper if you want to change the colder "sterile-shine" of Klasse into a richer and deep natural finish.



Go ahead and try it!
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

I agree with you DK, my sons Accord is now half Zaino'd and half fresh paint and clear. You really can't tell which is which.
</blockquote>
That's it, I'm getting Zaino next spring for my car. I have Klasse on it now, and I might expirement with toppers, but Zaino sounds top notch. Gotta try it.
Josiah
 
As others here have noted, its really a pretty cool idea to top of your 3-5 layers of Klasse SG with carnauba. It just adds that little something to the finish of your car. There are many good carnauba waxes out there. Some that come to mind are Blitz, Souveran, Pinnacle Paste Glaze, P21, etc...
 
Use the best of both wolds Blackfire with a Carnauba topper and you will have the best looking car in town.





Looks is the botom line. It's molecule composition is irrelevant.
 
Eurosport: Have you used Blackfire yet? We have at least two reviews now, one of which is inaccessible now. How about a review of the product?



Also, a couple clarifications:

1. Yes, how the car looks is most important, but since this is highly subjective, each person needs to decide what looks best to them.



2. You can top Zaino or Klasse with a caranauba if you want. It just so happens that we dont have good documentation on Klasse recommending a caranauba topper. In fact, I would predict that if you talked to to Klasse inventors, they would say no caranauba on top just like the Zaino inventor. All a matter of experimentation and personal preference.
 
If that was the case, people would just be using glaze blends of oils and polishes. The truth of the matter is, most of us, even the ones with show cars, in which shine might be THE ONLY THING that matters, have a daily driver, that we want to keep looking good for years and years to come. While shine is important, durability and protection of even more important. We want to keep that car looking GREAT for years and years to come, and with the amount of UV rays, and industrial fallout in the atmophere, todays cars need exceptional protection. In my opinion, the TRUE challange of detailing is to obtain that protection and durability level and also match and exceed the shine of these SHOW QUEENS that are attained using glazes and hi end carnuba blends.
 
This may be opening a can of worms, but when Bryan and I were working on the black Escalade last week, we encountered something strange. After doing Surbuf and M105 around the vehicle, Bryan then grabbed my Flex, and followed with M205 and an orange pad. Everything was fine. He did all but the hood. I then used the same combination on the hood, and it was leaving horrible marring....we are talking uniform 1/2" lines where we were using the Flex and this combo. We thought maybe the pad was contaminated, so we tried another, and got the same result. I even tried swapping to a White pad....no difference. Ultimately, we took THE SAME pad we had been using on the Flex, threw it on a G110v2, and it cleaned it all up.

Ultimately, the marring on the hood had something to do with the motion of the Flex. Anyone else ever seen this?
 
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