Whats the deal with EX/EX-P?

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JaCkaL829

it was my first time...
I originally posted this on Autopia and got a bigger response than expected. It seems like i'm not the only one with troubles from EX/EX-P. For anyone who hasn't seen the post, a quick recap: it seems fellow Autopians and I have been seeing parts of unbuffed EX/EX-P magically appearing after rain. Heres my original post...
http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43890&highlight=ex/exp
Now, Thankfully that your back Steve and things are getting better, maybe you can enlighten us on what you think the problem is.
Heres a pic of my cousin's Jimmy, it was done about 2 weeks ago with VM/EX and this is how the whole truck looks after it rained, covered with unbuffed marks of EX.
So if you can please shed some light on this topic, Steve, it'd be very helpful and informative. I like EX/EX-P i'm just now down with its remains after rain.
 
heres a resized pic sorry about the top one. Admin. feel free to delete the first one. I'm not sure how to edit my post.
 
I have seen this too with EX-P on my own car and truck where I applied it a bit too thick, and did not thoroughly buff afterwards. I have a white and dark green truck. When I was a more careful and used fresh mf to wipe down the vehicles after i was finished, they never reappeard. EX-P is so clear when applied thinnly that it is easy to miss...yes even me:lol I have not seen this or heard anyone tell me about this with EX...
I also believe as some have stated that humidity and working on a vehicle toward sunset can be part of the problem, but i prefer to use the products in the sun, which also quickens the flash time, and have not seen this reoccurance. I believe Scottwax also works mostly in the daytime and that again is why he has not seen reoccurances. I know many people are limited in their time to work on their vehicles because of their day job, but if you are doing late afternoon or night time work, you might try giving it more drying time. I have also not heard of this happening in any hot dry climates :nixweiss
As also stated by some people who have had this happen, they have wiped it off with a clean mf and have then had no more reoccurances either.
One last thought, is that it may be interacting with the product previously used on the finish ...ie VM ...where the EX/EX-P is not fully bonding to the finish in certain areas.

Thanks again tfor those who understand why i was slow to answer...

Steve
 
Thanks Steve...I originally replied to this thread on another forum.

When I start my winter prep next month I will follow Scottwax's advice and let the EX-P sit for 20-30 minutes as the instructions indicate before removing. I have been using the wipe on wipe off method I use with Klasse. Both times I have applied EX-P I know I applied it too thickly and there is a bit of a learning curve with any new product you use. The humidity should subside by then too. I've run into this same issue with Klasse...every time I've had the problem we've had a big rain....and we got 4-8 inches yesterday from Ivan so I'm sure I'll have a few spots.
 
My tendancy to apply all products too thickly when I apply by hand has led me to always apply my EX and/or EX-P using the PC. I also believe that I get more polishing/buffing done as I go over the truck with the PC while applying EX and that the machine spreads the EX more thinly than I can by hand. I never wipe it off until I've finished applying the product to the whole truck so there is a built in drying time of close to an hour. (extended cab full sized truck with hard tonneau is a lot of area to cover!)
 
I've had a couple small spots in odd places (middle of a door, roof, hood) that would be tough to miss when taking off product, all about the size of a quarter so I assumed it was just me, my eyesight, and the fact I was tired.

Spots did not appear after rain or heavy dew (it's garaged nightly), they just popped out a few days later.

I applied EX-P over VM with a PC & took it off with a clean MF, don't remember what the humidity factor was that night. Pretty sure I left it on for about an hour as the bottle states & I used a PC not so much to work the product as trying to apply a thin even coat.

More of a problem for pro's 'cause they may have to revisit a customer or two but for weekend hobby guys like myself it's a minor inconvenience & I'll continue using EX-P.
 
I've used quite a bit of both the EX, and EX-P, and never had an issue with removal. The only Poorboy's product that I've had that type of issue was the QD+. The older version would have stubborn spots appear several days latter.............. I probably just missed them in the inital wipe-down.
 
I've been using EX since last summer and EX-P since the first prototype version was released this past winter. I haven't experienced any problems with unbuffed residue suddenly reappearing. I apply EX and EX-P either by PC (finishing pad at speed 3) or by hand (Poorboy's PVA sponge). I always apply the products inside a garage and allow the car to sit inside overnight before exposing it to the elements. I normally allow 30-60 minutes for dry time before wiping off residue.
 
I've used Ex a few times and Ex-P several. I apply by hand using a pva sponge. I first wet the sponge with water then wring it out. After applying either sealant(outside in the sun) I let it stand a minimum of an hour. I then go back and wipe off. I haven't encountered any removal or residue problems using this method.
 
I've had it happen with EX-P but after rebuffing with a clean mf the problem never returned. Probably a humidity thing too cause that's what our summer has been like.
 
Not to come off as rude Steve, but you remember I posted about this a while ago and even ended up calling you regarding this EXACT matter. Now I dont want to sound high and mighty but I consider myself a good detailer. I played with EX-P on numerous cars, my own included. I even gave up on applying VM under it to rule that out as the reason for the problem.

I did 3 customers cars with it, my own car several times, and a few friends cars. Every single time I got a call about the blotches appearing. I had to go out, strip it down and redo them. I have noticed absolutely NO beading after this blotchiness appears. This leads me to believe there is something causing the EX/EX-P to lift from the surface. Perhaps its a weather induced issue as stated. I live in NJ, as you know it can get humid.

I guess the point I am driving at is I have gotten the thin application down pat. Easy to do with the PVA's. I also am not the type of guy to miss spots, certainly not that consistently either. Just thought I would share my experiences, not trying to bash. For what its worth EVERY single other product, especially your polishes, are my main weapon of choice for most anything.
 
For those that have tried it, have you had these EX/EXP problems with ANY other products in your experience such as UPP, LS, FMJ or any other sealant? Just curious... :huh

I have had some mystery spots appear once in a while too but I'm caution to blame the product and not my process of removing the product 100%.
 
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I just got done applying UPP to my car last Sunday, no problems.

NXT, Souveran, blackfire, wolfgang all used recently with no problems either.
 
hey breakneck, maybe its a Jersey thing?? I detailed my sister's beige escort, as seen at the Poorboy's detailing day this past Sunday. Decided to give EX-P another go, I applied it extremely thin, to the point where you couldn't even see it, let it sit for an hour then buffed off. I was very careful about buffing everywhere and even rewipped with another clean mf. So far so good, but it seems the rain ruins it for me. Well see this weekend cuz there predicting rain. I'm really hoping my problem was overapplying cuz I really like the way EX-P looks.
 
Water was usually the catalyst for my problems as well. It would look great for a few days and then when it rained, bam, blotches everywhere.
 
it seems to be a problem with a small amount of users overall and there must be a common link...as there are over 1,000 bottles now in users hands and there are only a handfull of people getting this and not all of them all the time.
For those who have had this happen to them...please pm or e-mail me with your detailing techniques and maybe i can figure out the common link:dunno
 
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