What makes microfiber "better"?

S

superstring

New member
Hi Folks



I posted this question yesterday. I came to check it today and it's dissappeared! :confused:



So here goes again.



What exactly is it about (synthetic) microfiber that makes it better for polishing than conventional 100% cotton terry towel?



1. Is it that microfiber is softer than cotton? (I don't think so)



OR



2. Is it because the fibers are so much finer that whatever scratches are induced, they are fine enough not to be noticed.



OR



3. Is it that microfiber is so much better at "grabbing" and removing product that it requires fewer passes and therefore there is less chance of marring?



All opinions welcome and appreciated! :)
 
The highest quality MF will never scratch, will trap dirt and moisture far better than cotton, will make polishes and cleaners work better than cotton, hold up to lots of abuse and repeated washings in hot water as well.



Hope this post survives this time !
 
Thanks for the replies!



I guess I should have phrased the question a bit differenly. I'm really wondering why microfiber doesn't scratch/mar like cotton, even though microfiber is SYNTHETIC, mostly POLYESTER, which I always thought was a NO-NO when it comes to detailing.



It's kind of a theorectical question I know ;). In other words, "well, microfiber doesn't mar, so why worry about it?" Well I'm curious, and I thought someone might know. :)
 
“I guess I should have phrased the question a bit differenly. I'm really wondering why microfiber doesn't scratch/mar like cotton, even though microfiber is SYNTHETIC, mostly POLYESTER, which I always thought was a NO-NO when it comes to detailing.�



Theoretical answer-



Quote Micro fibre is not a fabric, it is a yarn, spun into thread, which is used to weave or knit fabric. The most common micro fibres weave is polyester; called Microfiber and will indeed scratch the surface of your car if you aren't careful. You should, as a rule, avoid any cloth material that is not 100% natural and the cheaper imports from Asia, fabricated from polyester, rayon, nylon, and nylon by-products. Remember also that Microfiber can be man made (i.e. polyester) or natural (i.e. cellulose.)



By definition, (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) micro fibres are ultra-fine yarns made from various sources. They can be polyester, nylon, or a natural material such as cellulose, Microfiber filament spun or extruded from natural materials such as cellulose (plant fibres r) are available. Micro fibres are two times finer than silk and nearly one hundred times finer than human hair. The smaller the diameter, the softer the fabric will feel. Fineness measured in denier, a strand of cotton 200, human hair 20, a strand of silk 8 and Micro Fibre has a denier of between 0.01-0.02 This does not mean, however, that it is not abrasive or will not scratch. Just because it says Microfiber and it feels soft does not guarantee a scratch free shine



Information source: DF Towel, Autogeek and others
 
originally posted by theveed



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Originally posted by superstring

theorectical question

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Hehe... rectical... :P
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Hehe is right!!! Freudian slip I'm afraid! :D



And thanks TOGWT. :)
 
TOGWT said:
“I guess I should have phrased the question a bit differenly. I'm really wondering why microfiber doesn't scratch/mar like cotton, even though microfiber is SYNTHETIC, mostly POLYESTER, which I always thought was a NO-NO when it comes to detailing.�



Theoretical answer-



Quote Micro fibre is not a fabric, it is a yarn, spun into thread, which is used to weave or knit fabric. The most common micro fibres weave is polyester; called Microfiber and will indeed scratch the surface of your car if you aren't careful. You should, as a rule, avoid any cloth material that is not 100% natural and the cheaper imports from Asia, fabricated from polyester, rayon, nylon, and nylon by-products. Remember also that Microfiber can be man made (i.e. polyester) or natural (i.e. cellulose.)



By definition, (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) micro fibres are ultra-fine yarns made from various sources. They can be polyester, nylon, or a natural material such as cellulose, Microfiber filament spun or extruded from natural materials such as cellulose (plant fibres r) are available. Micro fibres are two times finer than silk and nearly one hundred times finer than human hair. The smaller the diameter, the softer the fabric will feel. Fineness measured in denier, a strand of cotton 200, human hair 20, a strand of silk 8 and Micro Fibre has a denier of between 0.01-0.02 This does not mean, however, that it is not abrasive or will not scratch. Just because it says Microfiber and it feels soft does not guarantee a scratch free shine



Information source: DF Towel, Autogeek and others
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I brought this up in anther thread too, but given the above wouldn't it make much more sense to have a MF towel that is made from natural materials since we know that manufactured material like polyester is more likely to cause scratches?
 
~One mans opinion / observations~



Microfiber can be made from nylon, polyester, nylon by-products or a natural material such as cellulose (a plant carbohydrate) both linen and cotton are natural plant fibres.



The smaller the diameter of the yarn, the softer the fabric will feel, however this does not mean that its non-abrasive and will not cause scratches (this softness can also be chemically induced) Most Microfiber that originates from Asia and the far east is fabricated from nylon, polyester or nylon by-products. Because the label says Mirofiber is no assurance that the material is safe to use or that it is non-abrasive. Micro fibres are never used alone but spun together with other yarn to form a less dense weave (100% micro fibre would be very dense, non-absorbent and almost satin like)



The most important criteria for any fabric used on a vehicle surface is its quality and scratch resistance. Natural cellulose can be spun with long staple cotton and then woven into a 100% natural terrycloth type fabric. This is very soft, absorbent, and non-abrasive and will not cause scratching. Once this type of fabric is washed two or three times, to remove any short fibres it will not leave a lint trail.



Quality towels edge bindings are sewn with cotton thread, not polyester. To ensure your towels and buffing clothes provide long-term use, wash them frequently in a liquid soap (Micro Restore) in hot (120oF<) water and a thorough cold rinse. Always wash micro fibre separately and only with other micro fibre fabrics



CD Scratch Test- with a micro fibre cloth, using medium to heavy pressure rub the surface of a CD. If there are no scratches then it probably wont scratch the vehicles paint surface.



Burn Test- to test a material for polyester content, light a thread, if it emits a black wisp of smoke and then shrivels up into a black hard ball, its polyester and can scratch your paint.



For more information see DF Towels website





~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
^ Yes, it helps greatly. And your opinions/observations certainly seem to be consistent with mine.



This is why I feel much safer using a MF that is made from all natural material.
 
Rob Tomlin said:
I brought this up in anther thread too, but given the above wouldn't it make much more sense to have a MF towel that is made from natural materials since we know that manufactured material like polyester is more likely to cause scratches?
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The term 'microfiber' defines the fineness of the fiber (logical) used to make the thread/yarn, which is then woven or knitted into a fabric.



The only natural-occurring fiber that occurs in the fineness qualifying as 'microfiber' is silk (unless genetic engineering has yielded a MF cotton, but I haven't seen it) - and that's a bit expensive for detailing cloths.



This is the reason that there are no 'natural' microfiber cloths available.



As with any product, there are varying degrees of quality in microfiber cloths, and also different fabric engineering specifications for different purposes. Waffle-weave is an excellent specification for a drying towel, but for buffing, a more tufted (similar to a Turkish towel) surface is preferred. Microfibers can be .9 denier, down to .0001 denier (and finer). The smaller the number, the finer the fiber is (and the less likely to scratch your paint).



Just because somebody is advertising that they sell 'Microfiber Cloths', doesn't mean that their product is suited for the purpose, or scratch-free.



Your best bet is to SEARCH here, and find which specific products Autopians have had good experiences with, and then purchase those.
 
TOGWT said:
........Microfiber can be made from nylon, polyester, nylon by-products or a natural material such as cellulose (a plant carbohydrate) both linen and cotton are natural plant fibres.......

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This whole idea of cotton (or any natural fiber) as a MF is new to me. Everything I have read to date indicates that a MF is a man-made fiber, typically Polyester and Polymide. I would think, from what I’ve read, that it would be difficult to make cotton into a true MF. I know that cotton as well as other fibers can be woven into a MF, but can cotton be made into a true MF fiber with the wedges/spokes commonly attributed to it?



I’m not saying it can’t be done, but the research I’ve turned up always refers to man-made fibers being used as MF’s. Is there a new fiber technology that allows cotton to be classed as a true MF?



From the following site: http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/textiles/nf47.htm I offer this quote:



“Micro-fibers are made from polyester, nylon, rayon and most recently acrylic. They also can be blended with other fibers including cotton, linen, wool, rayon and Lycra spandex. Blends enhance the appearance, hand, drape and performance properties of the fabric.�



They also list several companies involved with producing micro-fibers, and all the fibers mentioned are man-made (polyester nylon rayon, or acrylic).



From this site: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5546.html I offer the following quote:



“Man-made fibers are formed by forcing a liquid through tiny holes in a device called a spinneret. With microfibers, the holes are finer than with conventional fibers. Potentially, any man-made fiber could be made into a microfiber. Microfibers are most commonly found in polyester and nylon. Some rayon and acrylic micros are in production and available to consumers. Micros can be used alone or blended with conventional denier man-made fibers as well as with natural fibers such as cotton, wool, and silk.�



Is the info on these sites dated? Or is the idea of cotton or other natural fibers as a MF stretching the true definition of MF as most of us know it today?
 
I think they are somewhat inaccurate in assessing mf can only be a syntheitc fiber. Leo's DF Towels are proof natural mfs exist. They are quite good too :up
 
TOGWT, i use cool setting to wash my MF's, i though polyester and polymide would shrink and deform the MF's? i also use air setting on dryer there basicly drying in cool air. i have not had any problems, i use dreft detergent (infant/baby detergent) to wash my MF's.
 
if you're looking for the reason why a good micro fiber will not scratch as opposed to bad cotton fiber the answer is easy. it's because the "hardness" of the synthetic fiber is less than that of a cotton one.



In order for something to scratch something else it must be harder than it. Microscopicly the harder material physically abrades the softer one, damaging the softer one while the harder one remains.



We are lucky that the cusp of hardness in towels can be "measured" by something "soft" like a compact disk. Otherwise we would have no indicator of hardness at all.



Since micro fibers are man made, they can be quality controlled and raw material controlled. Chemically, inherently the good ones won't scratch. Cotton, is based upon nature.



But this assumes that you are using a good towel. The market has gone from quality to quantity over the past 5 years, so follow the old adage, caveat emptor.



Always test your towels, applicators, sponges and washmitts for their scratchability.



HTH, happy detailing.
 
I have tested my DF Towels on a CD and they scratch the CD much worse than my other MF. My DF Towels do not scratch the car though and neither do my other quality MF.



I don't know about the CD scratch test being a good indicator of what will scratch a car. Almost everything I have tested on the CD will scratch it. My foam apps, almost all of my over 200 MF, My MF wash mitts, sheep skin mitts, and cotton mitts.



If I want to test if something will scratch I pull the car into the sun and clean a section of the hood. I then rub the area with what ever I am testing and look for marring. If it marrs the paint than obviously don't use it.
 
stevet said:
I have tested my DF Towels on a CD and they scratch the CD much worse than my other MF. My DF Towels do not scratch the car though and neither do my other quality MF.



I don't know about the CD scratch test being a good indicator of what will scratch a car. Almost everything I have tested on the CD will scratch it. My foam apps, almost all of my over 200 MF, My MF wash mitts, sheep skin mitts, and cotton mitts.



If I want to test if something will scratch I pull the car into the sun and clean a section of the hood. I then rub the area with what ever I am testing and look for marring. If it marrs the paint than obviously don't use it.
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Wow, that's sounds a bit scary to me. Not exactly confidence inspiring to hear that all those products scratch a CD!



:scared
 
Rob Tomlin said:
Wow, that's sounds a bit scary to me. Not exactly confidence inspiring to hear that all those products scratch a CD!



:scared
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Why is it scary? Your clear coat is a lot harder than the surface of a CD. All those products did scratch a CD but not my car. The point of my post was that I would not concern myself too much about a product scratching a CD. After all your going to be using it on a car.
 
stevet said:
Why is it scary? Your clear coat is a lot harder than the surface of a CD. All those products did scratch a CD but not my car. The point of my post was that I would not concern myself too much about a product scratching a CD. After all your going to be using it on a car.
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Even if the clearcoat is harder than the surface of a CD, the fact that these items are capable of scratching a CD is still indicative of their ability to also scratch clearcoat/paint. Perhaps it won't scratch it as much or as noticeably as the CD, but it could still have a negative impact on a smaller scale.
 
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