What does an LSP protect against?

[schiddy]

This is a spinoff of David's thread about waterbeading. It really got me questioning myself what an LSP protects against. I was all set to buy opti-coat 2.0 for my NHBP soft *** honda paint that swirls when you breathe on it but now I'm not so sure anymore.



Quite literally ... What do waxes, sealants, and coatings protect against? What do each do that the others don't?

 

[schiddy]

Accumulator once tried to answer this question for me. It cleared up a lot but now I'm still confused about which one would protect against marring the most, swirling from washing, UV, etc. Here's what was said so far,

Ok, so let me ask this question in all seriousness, which is kind of funny since I've been on here long enough that I should know this. What exactly do sealants and waxes do for paint if they don't protect against scratching and marring? Just water, uv protection, and ease of cleaning?

Hey, I think that's a good question! And one that, heh heh a lot of people here wouldn't dare ask (their loss ) so I'm glad you brought it up.



Yeah, besides UV protection and a sacrificial layer to resist bird-bombs/etc. a little bit, *IMO* to a great extent the LSP just provides a film that sheds dirt/etc. better than bare paint does so you can wash more gently (and thus avoid marring).



And at some level, the LSP does resist/form a barrier against marring; when I'm flushing dirt across the panel with the foamgun there's virtually zero pressure on said dirt, so the minimal protection provided by the LSP is enough. But when somebody presses the dirt against the paint and then moves that dirt under that pressure (say, with a wash mitt used "conventionally") then that minimal protection isn't nearly enough to avoid damage. All a matter of degree...



And the way heavily layered KSG *does* provide more of barrier is one reason why I kinda put it in a different category than most LSPs. My FK1000P sheds dirt like nothing else I've ever used, and resists bird-bombs/etc., and looks nice, and is slick, and etc. etc. etc. But it's not the same "coated in a thick layer of plastic" protective effect that I got with ~6 coats of KSG and with the FK1000P I have less margin for error (marring-wise) than with the KSG by a long shot.

 

[Ben@3D]

I guess the best way to sum up an answer is that the wax/sealant provide a thicker/longer lasting version of a sacrificial barrier than an LSP. Without the nice surface of the wax/sealant first, an LSP wont do much of anything to protect the paint.



Maybe like layers of skin, the outer most(LSP) sheds all the time.



Make sense any? :twitch:

 

[schiddy]

I guess the best way to sum up an answer is that the wax/sealant provide a thicker/longer lasting version of a sacrificial barrier than an LSP. Without the nice surface of the wax/sealant first, an LSP wont do much of anything to protect the paint.

Ok, so are you assuming that everyone is using a wax sealant combo? Or layers? To me wax or sealant alone are considered LSP's.



I'm grouping anything left to remain on the paint after wash process or paint correction to be considered as an LSP. Like 3 layers of BFWD I would call an LSP even though it's been applied 3 times. Or say 1 layer BFWD and 1 layer of any wax. Am I wrong in assuming that? In the latter example would only the wax be the LSP?



Well anyways that's just terminology related. I'm just concerned what is actually happening protection wise with ANYTHING on top of the paint, whether it be 200 layers of zaino or 1 layer of sealant. I understand your analogy of layers of skin, a sacrificial layer, that makes sense. Do waxes, sealants and coatings protect against swirls from washing and marring or is that false? Do sealants have benefits over wax? If they do why would anyone use wax? Same question for coatings.

 

[schiddy]

Sorry to be so literal but I'm seriously asking these questions. Here's one that's not so abstract as it may be easier to answer.



If you owned a Nighthawk black pearl honda si that is incredibly soft (swirling from washing, easily scratched, easily rock chipped, daily driver, parked outside in northeast weather), what protection would you put on the paint after a correction and why? Very opinion based but would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Bill D]

Quite literally ... What do waxes, sealants, and coatings protect against? What do each do that the others don't?

Here's my basic answer based upon how I've always understood these products.



Waxes, sealant, and coatings protect against the same things, namely, environmental pollutants from the air ,rain ,and water and roads, bird bombs, bugs, and the like, various forms of dirt and grime etc. They also protect against marring and general usage. In short, they guard against anything detrimental to the finish that one would find outside a perfectly controlled garage or shelter where a cherry condition vehicle would be stored.



Different waxes, sealants, and coatings protect against threats to the finish to different degrees. Factor in the numerous types of brands and particular products within them, and we have a complicated and ongoing trial and error, yet very fun process of discovering, using, and reporting about them.



As a general rule of thumb, waxes are noted for their primary ingredient, carnauaba, a natural products. It's what's responsible for the shine and the deep look and shedding and therefore some of the wax's protective properties.Waxes are noted for the awesome look they give yet they tend to be the least durable product on the finish.



Sealants are synthetics. There are several types of synthetics a sealant can be. They provide awesome looks and longer lasting protection. Ease of usage and technique can vary as well.There are also several products that combine carnauba and synthetic. I, for example, use Wolfgang Fuzion. Terrific looks,feel, and protection.



Coatings tend to be a little more involved. They bond, and it is said they even become part of the paint, creating a very long lasting, even permanent, layer on top of the clear coat. Because of this, theoretically at least, they should provide the longest lasting protection from the threats to the paint. But what about looks?

 

[Bill D]

Sorry to be so literal but I'm seriously asking these questions. Here's one that's not so abstract as it may be easier to answer.



If you owned a Nighthawk black pearl honda si that is incredibly soft (swirling from washing, easily scratched, easily rock chipped, daily driver, parked outside in northeast weather), what protection would you put on the paint after a correction and why? Very opinion based but would like to hear your thoughts.

I have a new Accord daily driver and assume the paint's the same. Mine is extremely pampered in a climate controlled garage and I'm a utter fanatic about detailing it, but if I were in your shoes, I'd probably use FK1000P, probably in several layers. Folks here love the protection and durability they are finding with it. But keep in mind the LSP alone isn't necessarily going to be the only necessary protection from marring.



I would really stress safe washing technique, to really control the vast majority of the marring that is reasonable within your control. There's a thread here today that discussing washing technique and I'd search for and read Accumulator's non washing technique. I'd saying owning a foam gun is absolutely essential. I think Grit Guard set ups and multiple mitts per wash are really necessary too. If you're going to dry the car with waffle weave microfibers, definitely use only the highest quality you can find and use plenty of QD on the areas you're drying before pat drying them down first. I for one, use an Air Wand and a small motorcycle -type dryer for near touch free drying but I realize that's not possible/practical for all.



If you drive in chip-prone conditions, consider getting a clear bra on your car, or installing a vinyl bra--it can be removed and reinstalled as often as you like.





These three areas of marring prevention ought to have you on your way to that paint looking spectacular all of the time!

 

[schiddy]

Thanks Bill, that helps me put it in perspective. I was getting my lines blurred because of how people praise certain sealants for looks and certain waxes for longevity. Forgot about nature of product ingredients and some people's preferences for wax looks. It's so hard when there are no metrics we can use to see what products are protecting better. As stated in other threads who's to say beading is necessarily the best sign of protection? Hard to determine what's more important for clearcoat protection, UV, water resistance, or abrasion protection.



I think my gameplan for the nightmare bp civic is correction to the best of my ability. Opti-coat 2.0 on a few panels, and FK1000P on the rest of car. 2 products new to me but Opti-coat 2.0 will be "permanent" until polished out so I will want to be sure it does not affect looks beyond my liking compared to a wax.

 

[Bill D]

FWIW, I use the absence of or the gradually disappearing of beading as my measure that it's time to reapply the LSP. Admittedly, I rarely ever get to that point because the joy of applying wax or sealants is probably my single most enjoyable part of detailing.

 

[schiddy]

aha so you suggested multi layered fk1000p. I should be on the right track then. I FINALLY got consistent access to a hose so can now wash weekly hopefully in a non marring manner. I have two bucket grit guards, and multiple mitts. Have to work on the drying aspect though. Don't think I can do the leaf blowers but perhaps the waffle weave towels. Would plush towels be better if I'm not using quick detailer? I think the quick detailer would be to expensive for me. How is it used in drying exactly? Before or after initial patting of panel?

 

[Bill D]

The plush towels could do the same job as a WW. People use WW because of its high absorbing qualities. Regardless of what MFs you use,I personally would really use the QD, It acts as a lube to help dry better/guard against any potential marring from possible left over dirt and the like. Actually, it doesn't have to be the premium type of QD and even better, you can get a concentrate form you can mix up in a spray bottle and it's plenty slick for this type of work. The one I have is Detailer's Pro Rinseless Wash and Gloss. Once you've rinsed off the car, you spray it on the paint, then you pat dry with the WW MF. It's acting like a lube. To me, it's good habit and a safety measure to do.



In a pinch, and especially if the car isn't too dirty, there are also a number of waterless wash products out there it looks like people on the forum are happy with. That would probably be a good product to have in your stash for every now and then. I just would never rush wiping down the car with it.

 

[schiddy]

Thank you sir. I'm gonna have to try and budget in WW MF, non PS foam gun, foam gun capable soap, QD, FK1000p, and Opti-coat now lol

 

[Bill D]

You're welcome. There's no rule that you must use "foam gun capable " soap, BTW. Most do just fine. I run all kinds, especially Duragloss, Sonax, and Griots and they do just fine. The foam itself isn't necessarily key in getting the car clean, it's the constant flow of lubrication of the soap the foam gun provides that acts as the barrier between the dirt and the paint and your mitt. IME the foam gun is more ro less the single most important piece of detailing equipment I've ever purchased. Even more than a polisher, because it prevents, or at least delays my need to use it.

 

[spotter]

If your paint is that susceptible to marring I think you would be a perfect candidate for the OptiCoat. Washing would be easier than normal and the look will remain for a much longer period of time with much less work/expense. I have had mine for 9 months and it looks the same as the day it was applied. I couldn't be more pleased with the performance of OptiCoat. However, if you want to continually polish and wax/seal your car it may not be the answer for you.....just depends on how much or little work you want to do on a high maintenance paint job.

 

[David Fermani]

Quite literally ... What do waxes, sealants, and coatings protect against? What do each do that the others don't?

Not a whole heck of a lot like you'd think/hope! They're best quality is easier cleanability. Like Outlaw Titan suggested, you're a perfect candidate for Opti-Coat. It will make your paint less susceptible to marring by not only allowing dirt to not stick to the surface(during pre-rinsing), but making the outer surface stronger.

 

[OnTheSpotMobile]

I used to have a 2008 NHBP Civic Si, and had it been around back then, I would have gone with the opti-coat without hesitation. I remember I applied KAIO to the hood one day with a black LC finishing pad on my PC7424 and it put disgusting looking holograms all over the hood, which was a first for me for a finishing pad lol. The clear was so soft, I did not touch it again with a machine after correcting this problem!

 

[Bill D]

. I remember I applied KAIO to the hood one day with a black LC finishing pad on my PC7424 and it put disgusting looking holograms all over the hood, which was a first for me for a finishing pad lol. The clear was so soft, I did not touch it again with a machine after correcting this problem!

it sounds like that car can be totally polished by hand and any marring will come out, but only to be marred again if the sun shines the wrong way on it





Can marring just take place in Opti-Coat and can be removed just by adding another coat? In a sense Opti-Coat is acting as a second clear coat?

 

[pootoo12000]

For super soft, easily swirled paint, you can't beat a Bi or Tri-monthly application of Bilt Hamber Auto Balm.

 

[Accumulator]

Several sorta-random thoughts on this subject follow:



-The *ONLY* LSP I've ever used that provided any actual protection against marring/abrasion is heavily layered KSG

-BUT I haven't used my OptiCoat yet and it is almost certainly (and I'm convinced) provide good protection in this regard, especially as it'll be much harder than the Honda clear

-FK1000P's primary benefit with regard to marring is that it sheds dirt well; it also protects actainst etching as it is very resistant to birdbombs/bugs/etc.

 

[Bill D]

Welcome back, Accumulator. :wavey



I fondly recall the days of my layers of near 50 layers of SG on the A4. It probably did guard against micromarring due to acrylic nature of the product.



Since this Opti-Coat appears to be the first true, non snake oil coating of its kind, I expect it to provide similar, if not better protection. I think the home run with this product hopefully will be just adding another layer if it gets marred. Looks like we'll have to look for the field reports to starting coming in more regarding that...