What are some "Bondable" topper overs Zaino?

M

mystickid

New member
I Polished and Zaino-ed my car with 1 coat of zaino Z5 pro. I don't want to add additional layers of Z5 or Z2.



What are durable and "Bondable" toppers over the Z5 pro? I need durability because this will be my winter lSP.



I have...



IW 845

OCW Spray Wax

Werkstat Acrylic jett Trigger

BFWD

Zaino Z8 (But I dont think it will be durable for winter)
 
Zaino is right up there as being one of the most durable ones on the market. There is really no need for you to add any other product.



Why wouldn't you want to add any more layers of Zaino? Would take you all of 30mins to add a layer?



Still a little while before snow (a couple of weeks), why not just add additional layer every week until the snow arrives to have a nice build up of product?
 
Any wax/sealant can be a "topper" after you let it cure for 8hours; preferably, 24hrs. If you used ZFX'd Z5, then you can apply as many coats as you want of Z5
 
I don't believe any product truly layers and builds up in thickness (unless someone can prove it with a PTG), so just keep adding whatever you want with each or every other wash so you have the freshest level of protection prior to the weather getting too bad to continue wax/sealing regularly. On the days where the weather allows, either Z8 or OCW will keep the protection fresh.
 
Scottwax said:
I don't believe any product truly layers and builds up in thickness (unless someone can prove it with a PTG), so just keep adding whatever you want with each or every other wash so you have the freshest level of protection prior to the weather getting too bad to continue wax/sealing regularly. On the days where the weather allows, either Z8 or OCW will keep the protection fresh.
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I mostly agree with Scott, the one exception I have found that actually does seem to layer is KSG. That said, I think it is very silly for you to use Zaino and then want to top it. You are defeating the purpose of it. These multi-layered sandwiches of products are nothing more than a waste of time. Either put another layer of Zaino to refresh it or change to something else. You aren't getting any more protection with something different on top, in fact you are probably compromising both layers.
 
Scottwax said:
I don't believe any product truly layers and builds up in thickness (unless someone can prove it with a PTG), so just keep adding whatever you want with each or every other wash so you have the freshest level of protection prior to the weather getting too bad to continue wax/sealing regularly. On the days where the weather allows, either Z8 or OCW will keep the protection fresh.
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Hey Scott.



The thickness of the protection is so fine, i doubt that any PTG would be accurate enough to even detect it. However, if the premise of a sealant that a bonded layer of protection to your paint that lasts for months. Then it goes to reason that layering it should in theory be correct as long as the previous coat is cured. Apply a sealant to me is like adding a very very very thin layer of clearcoat to your paint that wears off over a period of time. So .. you should be able layer it.



I see wax different then sealants in that it's more of a french polish concept. You can't really layer it but your keep reworking the protection so adding multiple layers isn't possible as the layer never cures fully cures.



Wonder if Sal, RonK, the Optimum guy or MikeP (regarding Meguiars Pro Sealant) could shed some light on the issue of whether's a myth or not.
 
Paco and others,



Thanks for the Input. The reason I don't want to put on more layers of Z5 is because this is my second shot and giving Zaino a "Chance" and it just doesn't look great to me.



I tried it the first time and had high expectations of super glossy deep candy coated like paint on my black car. Z2 did add noticeable relflectivity which was especially noticeable at nightime from lights and such, however both Z2 and Z5 failed me in the looks department for depth.



Additionally, when it rained here in chicago, my zaino treatment didn't bead well after 2 or 3 rains. Now bear in mind that the zaino treatment was after a full correction detail from my flex.



I'm not sure if its the chemicals in the leaves, when it rains, that totallly destroy beading from lSps, but I do remember putiing on a Megs #26 and the beading was outstanding and the paint was super hydrophobic.



Basically I am looking for the looks of Megs #26/Natty'sBlue with durability of about 4-5 months. In this quest I bought a whole bunch of popular lsps to try and find out which one is right for me.



Maybe I'll put on a coat of BFWD over the Z5 pro since you guys mention that anything can be put on after a full cure duration of 24 hours.



The reason I asked in this thread was because I was under the impression that zaino doesnt allow for proper bonding of other lsps.
 
I really like BFWD and Opti-Seal. Both look really good. OS is a quick application. I have yet to see how well BFWD lasts in the rain/elements.
 
mystickid said:
I tried it the first time and had high expectations of super glossy deep candy coated like paint on my black car. Z2 did add noticeable relflectivity which was especially noticeable at nightime from lights and such, however both Z2 and Z5 failed me in the looks department for depth..
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If you are looking for depth, generally you want to go with a wax not a sealant, especially not Zaino which many claim gives a plastic look. I imagine there are exceptions of sealants which do add somewhat to depth but I doubt to the degree a nuba wax will.



mystickid said:
Additionally, when it rained here in chicago, my zaino treatment didn't bead well after 2 or 3 rains. Now bear in mind that the zaino treatment was after a full correction detail from my flex.



I'm not sure if its the chemicals in the leaves, when it rains, that totallly destroy beading from lSps, but I do remember putiing on a Megs #26 and the beading was outstanding and the paint was super hydrophobic.



Basically I am looking for the looks of Megs #26/Natty'sBlue with durability of about 4-5 months. In this quest I bought a whole bunch of popular lsps to try and find out which one is right for me.
Click to expand...



This seems a little odd to me since Zaino is known for its long term beading. For its beading to be compromised in such a short period of time makes me wonder if the curing was somehow compromised, ie polishing oils left on the paint before application???
 
IMO Z2+Z8 has plenty of depth. Though if you want a carnauba look, BFWD is great. It will not last 4-5 months if your car is parked outdoors.
 
Bert, I did do alcohol wipedowns after polishing so I'm not sure why beading diminished eaither. I had the same loss of beading with BFWD the first time around too...maybe it s a sealant thing. All my paste waxes have always beaded quite well.



Again I think when the rain combines with the chemicals in tree leaves, sap, etc. it really hurts lsps...just my theory.



I'm gonna go ahead with a couple coats of BFWD over the Z5 and see where that takes me.
 
paco said:
Hey Scott.



The thickness of the protection is so fine, i doubt that any PTG would be accurate enough to even detect it. However, if the premise of a sealant that a bonded layer of protection to your paint that lasts for months. Then it goes to reason that layering it should in theory be correct as long as the previous coat is cured. Apply a sealant to me is like adding a very very very thin layer of clearcoat to your paint that wears off over a period of time. So .. you should be able layer it.
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Seeing as Zaino and every other sealant I have used apparently has enough "stuff" in it to remove tar and minor paint transfers, I think they also remove some, if not all of whatever was on the paint previously. IMO, layering is a marketing gimmick to get people to go through a durable product more quickly. From a purely business standpoint, you'd want your customers to buy a bottle or tin of your product once a year instead of once every three years, right? Two thin layers to ensure complete coverage is more than enough.



I see wax different then sealants in that it's more of a french polish concept. You can't really layer it but your keep reworking the protection so adding multiple layers isn't possible as the layer never cures fully cures.
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Like sealants, waxes have ingredients that will remove tar (and sometimes light paint transfers) so I don't think they really layer either. Multiple coats (assuming 24 hours and a wash in between) do seem to add depth, but then again, it could simply be that washing degrades the appearance just enough that a fresh coat makes an improvement in looks. It isn't layering but bringing the appearance back up to 100%.



Personally, I think you should use what you like as your LSP and not worry about topping or layering. Just use it often enough to keep the paint protected. Far too often we all (myself included) get caught up in trying to over-think detailing. I've learned to keep it as simple as possible.
 
My use of Zaino for over 8 years tells me that 3x of either 2/5pro with ZFX, will outlast 1x of 2/5pro. Over 6 months w 3x vs 4 months of 1x.
 
Scottwax said:
I don't believe any product truly layers and builds up in thickness (unless someone can prove it with a PTG), so just keep adding whatever you want with each or every other wash so you have the freshest level of protection prior to the weather getting too bad to continue wax/sealing regularly. On the days where the weather allows, either Z8 or OCW will keep the protection fresh.
Click to expand...



I agree with you..to a certain extent.



In a blind test involving 2 guys (non-enthusiast) and 2 college girls, all 4 could tell a diff between 1 application of Z2Pro vs 3apps.

They didn't know what was used and how it was used. They just saw the same car on different days.

But on >3 apps....no one made any comments when they saw the car.



So, even if you layer, there's a point of diminishing returns, and after that point, IMO, it's just merely a feel-good thing.
 
gigondaz,



That could be the effect of additional polishing (jeweling) from the friction of the wetten pad of Zaino.



Paco
 
gmblack3a said:
My use of Zaino for over 8 years tells me that 3x of either 2/5pro with ZFX, will outlast 1x of 2/5pro. Over 6 months w 3x vs 4 months of 1x.
Click to expand...



I've found the same thing. However, I often wonder if it's 1 of 2 things:



1. Actual layering (which i still think is possible)

2. The 2nd and 3rd applications fill in missed/poorly bonded micro spots that might have a very small amount of residual oils. That's why i apply my sealant coats in one straight direction then go back for the 2nd coat in the opposite 90' and 3rd in circles.



Personally, I think it's a mix of both items above and at least for me a home owner and not pro who's time is money.. I prefer to apply 2-3 sealant coats.



Also, with Zaino I find that if you wait 24 hours (even with ZFX) it seems to harden and gets even more of shine to it so .. i typically given time do 1 coat on day 1 and the 2nd and 3rd coats on day 2.



Scott brings up a good point about "solvents" in sealants and waxes... however I was always under the impression that Z2/Z5 didn't have cleaners/solvents in the formulation that would do such a thing.



That does bring up a good point of putting waxes over sealants.. kind of defeats the purpose of the sealant base.
 
Zaino has to have some type of layering ability. If not, an application of Z8 would remove the more durable Z/5pro. Z8 always adds durability to Z2/5pro. One has to remember that water also is a solvent. I'm not aware of water removing Zaino.
 
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