water spots - how is it possible?

S

steve259

New member
I'm frustrated. i spent months getting water spots out of my black car. then i finally drove it and it rained on it (it was clear when i left the house). i washed it yesterday doing as much right as i could think of to prevent new water spots. i washed with soft water (i have a soft going to the garage). i then used the sheeting method with the soft water. i then rinsed with reverse osmosis water (i also have that going to the garage but my supply is limited so i only use it to rinse). then i used the sheeting method with the ro water. i then dried with microfiber. i looked pretty good (i was almost afraid to look under the florescent lights though) when i got done. this morning as i'm going to work under better lighting i notice there's water spots in it. How could that be possible?! i am thoroughly frustrated. i don't know what else to do ...

:(

Steve
 
If you dried the car thoroughly after washing it, I would guess that you had water spray out of your mirrors/seams while you were driving, and that caused the spots.



I drive my car around the block after each time I wash it, to get all that water out. When I get back to the driveway I dry it off again.
 
White95Max said:
If you dried the car thoroughly after washing it, I would guess that you had water spray out of your mirrors/seams while you were driving, and that caused the spots.



I drive my car around the block after each time I wash it, to get all that water out. When I get back to the driveway I dry it off again.
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Normally, this is what I do. It usually gets almost all of the water out of the crevices and what not. You could always use your wet/dry vacuum as a blower if you have that option.
 
even if it was water from crevices (which i really don't think it was) , what would be coming out of crevices would have been ro water (?) ... that's what's so strange ...
 
You don't wash inside those crevices and inside your mirrors, so there could be dirt that mixes with that water. When the water evaporates, you have spots of dirt left over.
 
I use the air compressor, with two filters (one at the compressor itself and also at each "air station" where I hook up the air hose reels. Getting a vehicle *truly* dry can take quite a while; as soon as you think it's dry, if you go around it again you'll still get water out of some places.



As White95Max said, it can be tough to get the nooks and crannies (where water accumulates) really clean, and water trapped in there could be from the wash, not necessarily from the last rinse.



Note that RO water isn't *pure* water ("pure" as in distilled). We've used RO water for all our cooking/drinking for a good 20 years, and it's always left some residue/deposits behind. *Much* better than with tap water, but not perfect. Just like "soft" water doesn't leave a truly spot-free surface- it's better than "hard" water, though- all this stuff is relative.



If the waterspots aren't from the wash/rinse, then you need to try a different LSP, one better suited to your conditions. Might oughta try that anyhow, my previous shop had nasty, hard water and I didn't really have a problem with spotting (but then, I did all that compressed-air-drying at that shop too).
 
Water spots drive me crazy! They stick out like a sore thumb on my black paint. After washing & drying, like WhiteMax says, I drive around the block then spot dry. I think the secret is using a QD after you're done drying. I QD after every wash just to remove any remaining water spots.
 
I know all about the water spots, the Stang leaks from the back for days sometimes and this is after blowing out crevices and drying well. I don't really hose wash anymore partly because of this and also its alot cooler workin' in the garage when the heat index is 106:cool: ,plus its quicker. Recently I started using distillled water with QEW for assurance, cause sometimes water will drip and I might miss it, or the water will get in the trunk seams and leak later leaving horrible water spots left to bask in the sun:( . So far its been going well:xyxthumbs. And at a 1.00 a wash for 2 gallons, its not to exspensive.
 
thanks for all the great responses so far!



to accumulator:

now THAT surprises me. i thought RO water was perfect water. it showed up on culligan's little test at about "99.8 % pure"

although now that i recall, i did a test on my bumper with the "pure" water and it left some spots ... i thought it was somehow remnants of dirt from before or something ... hmmmm ...



also, i don't know what "LSP" stands for (?)



i'm still puzzled because i noticed the spots on a place that didn't have "runoff" out of a crack. it was right on the side. i had it pretty dry and pulled it into the garage and went around it a few more times with the microfiber towel at any "runoff" areas. maybe its somehow from this non-perfect water (?).



to BlkTac05:

the QD idea might work but wouldn't that take off the wax? if that's a dumb question, forgive me :) .. i do ask alot of them sometimes ... :)



to true blue blood:

that doesn't sound like a bad idea ... except ... it worries me that

Larry at carcareonline tested QEW and chose not to carry it (?)



does anyone know anything about this?:

http://www.ionman.com/

the high pressue bothers me somewhat but there may be ways to maybe get around that? like not standing so close or something (?)



wow! and i thought i was already pretty much rinsing with distilled water! (since i thought RO was essentially the same thing!)

water spots are driving me crazy! i'm almost ready to sell my black car ... i can't take much more ...
 
steve259 said:
thanks for all the great responses so far!





to true blue blood:

that doesn't sound like a bad idea ... except ... it worries me that

Larry at carcareonline tested QEW and chose not to carry it (?)



.
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Alot of people use it here and seems a portion of pro mobile detailers do to. It definetly is a product with a learning curve, and it took me alittle while to adjust and get a technique down but I don't know what I'd do w/o it. SO a quick review wouldn't work in this case, its weird to wash in such an unorthodox manner:p . It doesn't have to be a primary wash, when lightly dirty QEW, if its filthy hose wash. But to be honest without getting water conditioners/cleaners etc. it will be tough especially on black. Best bet is wash in shade in early or late day and dry quickly and use QD to get left over spots. A Distilled water rinse in one of the pressure bottles would help alot I believe never tried it. QEW has too many benefits, do a searchits comes highly recommneded:xyxthumbs
 
thanks!

ok, another stupid question perhaps. the "pressure bottles" you mentioned ... i tried the garden sprayer type and it didn't work too well. is there something else?



as far as wax, my process was:

3 times over the whole car with 3M imperial hand glaze to get some of the other water spots out (got most of it out) followed by GEPC, then P21 carnuaba. that should have been more than sufficient i would think. since i tend to have bad shoulder from lifting it took me months to do. didn't drive the darn car for 6 months. that's what's so frustrating about getting water spots again. i'd hate to have to go through that process again ...
 
Rather than go over the car three ( :eek: ) times with IHG I'd use something with a little bite to it (IHG is nonabrasive) or with some stronger chemical cleaners. I'd even consider just using the GEPC by itself.



If it were mine, I'd use something like 1Z MP or Meg's #80 and top with something like Meg's #16 (I hear there are still a few cans around) or Collinite IW.



With a bad shoulder I sure wouldn't go over the car that many times with *anything* and I'd also prefer to use a wax that lasts longer than P21s.
 
thanks! i did the 3x method because that's what Larry at car care online suggested and he seemed to know what he was talking about. he highly recommended trying everything possible to try and take off as little paint as possible (at a microscopic level of course) and suggested that method rather than getting more aggressive. (i was leaning toward getting more aggressive at that point but he convinced me).

yes, i'd have to say that i will NEVER do that again (multiple time over the whole car with anything). i'll use sandpaper before i go through that again! :)



i really don't know all the lingo here so i don't know what 1zMp is. at the time, i had considered meguire's fine cut (?) (is that 80?).

the gepc by itself didn't even begin to get the spots out. i only used it right before the wax (after most of the spots were out) because the paint really seems to like it and p21 in general (meaning it really LOOKS good with those products).



any recommendations on a wax that looks good but lasts longer than p21? i've got some soveriegn (?). and some fmj i think (?). i've tried to stay away from polymers because i read on one site the german paints don't like them (?). (its a 2002 black M3 btw). but its not like the paint is perfect anymore so its not going to hurt to try things anymore i suppose :)



ok. as far as AVOIDING water spots in the future, i've seen two things that looked intriguing:

1) a professional garden sprayer at home depot that holds 4 gallons and about 70 psi i think - could load that thing with distilled and rinse with it.

2) the "revolutionizer"

http://www.mightymart.com/detailI.asp?prodID=2539

the only thing about deionization systems though is that they stop working evenually and when they do something about the ph being alot lower (acidic) (some engineer i am!) and doing nasty things at that point ... so THEN the question would be how to use it until it even STARTED to not work to ensure that one doesn't get those other problems ...

wow. nothing is simple ...

what do you think?

thanks for all the help!
 
P21s finish restorer will take water spots straight off.

I am paranoid about water spots and this past week the weather has been rain, sun, rain, sun every day which is the perfect recipe for spots

However I have found with plenty of sealant coatings on your car , regular washing and QDing with a protective qd each time, the chances of spots are seriously reduced

Washed the beast on friday night due to it being filthy from the weather and not a spot.

WG DGPS and DP spray sealant claim to protect against water and so far are proving this.



my cars sealant system - 2 x FMJ, 1 x UPP, 1 x WG DGPS, DP spray sealant

hood and front bumper - chocolate moose wax

Using menzerna acrylic shield as QD along with DP final gloss booster on glass (Klasse SG, 24 hour bonding period) and WGDGPS

Sometimes four star UGE, 1Z lack or WG IDS



All exterior trim was cleaned with VM and RMG, Autoglym 01B and is coated with 1 x Wolfgang Black diamond, optimum PP and klasse SG



My away from home maintanence is second to none

If you suffer spots again, try first the vinegar trick and move to clearkote VM and RMG with edge 2000 white pad at 600-1000 rpm and only use P21s if absolutely necessary
 
steve259 said:
...any recommendations on a wax that looks good but lasts longer than p21? i've got some soveriegn (?). and some fmj i think (?). i've tried to stay away from polymers because i read on one site the german paints don't like them (?). (its a 2002 black M3 btw)..
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Glad to hear you got the spots off!



German paints do just fine with sealants, voice of experience here ;)



Besides the stuff you have now (Souveran looks great but doesn't protect/last all that well), you could try UPP (my fave for my "good" car, German BTW) or Meg's #16, which is still available if you look around a little. I used #16 at my old shop which had *terrible* water, and I didn't have problems with spotting. Looks a lot like P21s too ;)
 
no, unfortunately i didn't get the water spots off yet. i think the spots that i mentioned getting out were from before. it took me 6 months to get those out. i know, i'm slow ...

these are new ones :(

ya know, after reading The Nutty Professor's response, something has just clicked into my brain. these water spots are from the rain. not from my water. maybe the rain ones never came out when i washed the car (?). i think i'm confused now ... so if it rains on your car, you'll have water spots unless you agressively get them out with something? not just wash your car? no wonder i never drive it when it looks like rain!



is there an acronym list somewhere on this site? that would be quite useful. i don't know what most of what The Nutty Detailer mentioned. Also don't know what UPP is.

Also, did Meg discontinue #16?
 
Yes you will get water spots from rain. They aren't hard water spots though. The spots are from the condensation nuclei that comprise raindrops. Mostly tiny particles of pollution. The water evaporates and leaves behind a spot of dirt/pollution particles.
 
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