Water softeners, DI, RO. What's the difference?

SuperBee364

SuperBee364

New member
This subject comes up every now and then, and yesterday I received the following PM:



"Are water softeners and DI systems the same thing? If not, the CR Spotless System is a DI system, not a water softener correct?



This AG sells a system [url]http://www.autogeek.net/clinhofianda.html[/URL] which filters and softens the water but it uses Resin in the water softener cartridge just like the CR Spotless system. So is it a DI system or a water softener? Or are they the same thing? Very confusing."



So here's a quick run down on the differences...



Water softeners work by exchanging calcium ions for sodium ions. Period. It's that easy. :) The result is that the water does come out saltier. How salty? Depends on the hardness of the water you're running through it. The harder your water, the saltier it'll be coming out. These systems can be refreshed by soaking the media in salt water.



De-ionizing filters: work by removing calcium ions from the water. Well, it really isn't *that* easy, but let's just pretend that it is. No sense in getting too complicated. The advantage here is that the water is truly mineral free, and it doesn't have any added sodium (to make white spots on your car). The disadvantage is that they can't be refreshed (by conventional means, at least. They really can be refreshed, but it takes some nasty acids and caustic bases to do it), and the resin can be pretty expensive. This is what a CRSpotless system is.



Reverse Osmosis, or RO system: For a great explanation of RO, go check wikipedia. Let's just say that it uses a very thin membrane to filter water down to a very, very small level. So small, that not even mineral ions are left behind. These systems are true water purifiers, and will give the highest quality (overall) water of all of the systems. How much in the way of total desolved solids (TDS or mineral content) is left depends on the specific RO system. Many RO systems can get down to 5 PPM. The higher end systems will have a DeIonizing "polishing" filter after the RO membrane to take the TDS to 0. RO systems typically waste quite a bit of water. The amount depends on how good the system is.



So there you have it. A quick and dirty rundown of the different ways of getting mineral free water.
 
SuperBee364 said:
This subject comes up every now and then, and yesterday I received the following PM:



"Are water softeners and DI systems the same thing? If not, the CR Spotless System is a DI system, not a water softener correct?



This AG sells a system [url]http://www.autogeek.net/clinhofianda.html[/URL] which filters and softens the water but it uses Resin in the water softener cartridge just like the CR Spotless system. So is it a DI system or a water softener? Or are they the same thing? Very confusing."



So here's a quick run down on the differences...



Water softeners work by exchanging calcium ions for sodium ions. Period. It's that easy. :) The result is that the water does come out saltier. How salty? Depends on the hardness of the water you're running through it. The harder your water, the saltier it'll be coming out. These systems can be refreshed by soaking the media in salt water.



De-ionizing filters: work by removing calcium ions from the water. Well, it really isn't *that* easy, but let's just pretend that it is. No sense in getting too complicated. The advantage here is that the water is truly mineral free, and it doesn't have any added sodium (to make white spots on your car). The disadvantage is that they can't be refreshed (by conventional means, at least. They really can be refreshed, but it takes some nasty acids and caustic bases to do it), and the resin can be pretty expensive. This is what a CRSpotless system is.



Reverse Osmosis, or RO system: For a great explanation of RO, go check wikipedia. Let's just say that it uses a very thin membrane to filter water down to a very, very small level. So small, that not even mineral ions are left behind. These systems are true water purifiers, and will give the highest quality (overall) water of all of the systems. How much in the way of total desolved solids (TDS or mineral content) is left depends on the specific RO system. Many RO systems can get down to 5 PPM. The higher end systems will have a DeIonizing "polishing" filter after the RO membrane to take the TDS to 0. RO systems typically waste quite a bit of water. The amount depends on how good the system is.



So there you have it. A quick and dirty rundown of the different ways of getting mineral free water.
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Interesting. Watersofteners and DI systems both use Resin but not in the same way I guess. My assumption is that using a DI system such as CRSpotless, you are safe to rinse your car and let it air dry. On a water softening system you MIGHT be able to do so but probably not.
 
When I used regular water softening filters (that could be refreshed by a salt water soak), I was left with white salt stains on my car when I just let it air dry.



I have since built my own DI system, and I can let it air dry spot-free when the filters are new. I always blow dry my car, though.



Softening and DI systems do both use resin, but the *types* of resin are very different.
 
SuperBee364 said:
When I used regular water softening filters (that could be refreshed by a salt water soak), I was left with white salt stains on my car when I just let it air dry.



I have since built my own DI system, and I can let it air dry spot-free when the filters are new. I always blow dry my car, though.



Softening and DI systems do both use resin, but the *types* of resin are very different.
Click to expand...



I wonder if someone who already has the Autogeek system could buy some of the replacement CRSpotless Resin and put it in their softener cartridge and get similar results as a CRSpotless system?
 
bert31 said:
I wonder if someone who already has the Autogeek system could buy some of the replacement CRSpotless Resin and put it in their softener cartridge and get similar results as a CRSpotless system?
Click to expand...



Yes, you can. It's as easy as unscrewing the end of the filter, dumping out the old resin, and replacing it with the bulk resin sold by CRSpotless. You can also buy empty filter cartridges and fill them yourself. One huge advantage that the CRSPotless system has over DIY systems is the built in, in-line TDS meter. The meter tells you how many PPM of TDS the water has coming out of the system. Very cool. I'm going to be adding an in line TDS meter to my setup next spring.



The cart that that CRSpotless sytem uses is cool, too.



Honestly, if I had it to do over again, I'd just bite the bullet and spend the extra money on the CRSpotless high capacity system and call it good. Yes, it's more money than a home made system, but a DIY system won't have the total capacity (unless you spent a bunch more money on it), doesn't have the cart, or the in line TDS meter. The high capacity CRSpotless system can take up to 3 gallons per minute, too. My DIY can barely take 1.5
 
SuperBee364 said:
Yes, you can. It's as easy as unscrewing the end of the filter, dumping out the old resin, and replacing it with the bulk resin sold by CRSpotless. You can also buy empty filter cartridges and fill them yourself.
Click to expand...



If I already owned the AG unit, that is probably what I would do. You would probably have to change the resin more often than the DIW - 10 CRSpotless model but not having to buy any additional equipment would make it worth it.



SuperBee364 said:
One huge advantage that the CRSPotless system has over DIY systems is the built in, in-line TDS meter. The meter tells you how many PPM of TDS the water has coming out of the system. Very cool. I'm going to be adding an in line TDS meter to my setup next spring.
Click to expand...



Can you buy one of these TDS meters at Home Depot or Lowes?



SuperBee364 said:
The cart that that CRSpotless sytem uses is cool, too.
Click to expand...



It is nice but a little pricey for the upgrade - $50



SuperBee364 said:
Honestly, if I had it to do over again, I'd just bite the bullet and spend the extra money on the CRSpotless high capacity system and call it good. Yes, it's more money than a home made system, but a DIY system won't have the total capacity (unless you spent a bunch more money on it), doesn't have the cart, or the in line TDS meter. The high capacity CRSpotless system can take up to 3 gallons per minute, too. My DIY can barely take 1.5
Click to expand...



To increase your DIY models filter capacity, would that require adding more (or larger) cartriges?
 
bert31 said:
If I already owned the AG unit, that is probably what I would do. You would probably have to change the resin more often than the DIW - 10 CRSpotless model but not having to buy any additional equipment would make it worth it.



Can you buy one of these TDS meters at Home Depot or Lowes?



It is nice but a little pricey for the upgrade - $50



To increase your DIY models filter capacity, would that require adding more (or larger) cartriges?
Click to expand...



There are alot of online merchants that carry TDS meters, it's just a matter of plumbing it into the system that's kind of a PITA.



Using bigger cartridges that contain more resin would be better than adding more cartridges; less pressure drop.
 
I just called it quits and purchased a CR myself from Costco. It's really worth its $369.99 premium for the trouble and time involved in fabricating a DIY system. Also, if it should break, I can always exchange it. :)
 
I have the CRSpotless that I bought from Costco and like it very much. But is there another source (less expensive) to buy the resins from instead of from CR?
 
The cheapest I've found is ordering the resin straight from CR Spotless in the 1 cubic foot drum for $195.00. It will do 3 complete refills for the DIC/W-20 or 6 times for DIC/W-10 and it's free shipping. I'm about to place my order for one.
 
I'm thinking of purchasing my refills by the drum directly from CR, just as jb1 mentioned. I'm hoping to get a long life from my resins with the decently hard water in my area. Otherwise I'll be looking to buy resin drums more often than I had hoped for.
 
Denzil said:
I'm thinking of purchasing my refills by the drum directly from CR, just as jb1 mentioned. I'm hoping to get a long life from my resins with the decently hard water in my area. Otherwise I'll be looking to buy resin drums more often than I had hoped for.
Click to expand...



You have to think there are cheaper options for buying Resin than going through CRSpotless but I have no clue where.
 
The only problem I had with Costco $369 prices is they will chage me $22 tax which brings it back up to close to $400. I went on ebay, typed in Spotless, a lot of stuff comes up but as you page through it you'll see some DIC-20's that are used or store displays. I bought one for $197 shipped, other than buying a male connect it works well as I have used it twice. I saw two componies selling these from California, which is close to CRs headquarters ,which probably isn't a coincidence. Just be careful as one supplier has pick-up only. Be sure the wrench is supplied (or you can buy it from CR for $5) also the machine with the T connects is the older version.



Howard
 
bert31 said:
You have to think there are cheaper options for buying Resin than going through CRSpotless but I have no clue where.
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A guy on the corvette forum told me he bought some from Resintech. I called the sales person who handled the area that Dallas was in and he never returned my call. I left several messages. Maybe you guys can try and see if you have better luck. But I agree, there has to be a place where we could purchase it cheaper.



If someone does find a place that sells compatible resin, please report back and let us know.
 
As far as taste goes, RO water is king for me. It tastes better to me (mind you, it's also well water that's passed through a water softener and RO system) than bottled water and far better than tap water.
 
bert31 said:
You have to think there are cheaper options for buying Resin than going through CRSpotless but I have no clue where.
Click to expand...



That's something I'd like to find out but haven't bothered to look right now. Maybe when the school semester is over I'll go have a look. :2thumbs:
 
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