Washing: The love/hate relationship

B

breakneckvtec

New member
A little story and some questions:



I put a good amount of time into polishing out my car and my girls car. They both looked perfect. Both cars have 2 coats of UPP on them currently. Well after a few washings there is marring showing up again. I think perhaps I wasnt as careful as I should have been with the drying, perhaps I pressed down on the towel a bit or something, who knows. Usually I let the weight of the towel be the pressure and then just glide it over the paint lightly, I use the BB drying towel.



Is this just one of those neverending battles. I am a little disappointed, the swirls showed back up quicker than anticipated. Is it possible they are swirls in the protectant layer? They are VERY light, and should come right out. IT is dissapointing none the less because winter is on the way and I dont have the time to strip it all down and start over. :mad:



Dont think it makes a difference but both cars were polished out using the SSRs...so no fillers.
 
breakneckvtec- Yeah, it's frustrating to undo all your good efforts when you do the one thing that's unavoidable- washing. IMO that's what makes wash/dry technique the single most important part of detailing.



Maybe check out my Wash Technique . It's a bit much, but you can get the general idea and modify it to suit your hassle-tolerance ;)



With UPP on there, you really can wash without marring, it's so slick you can move the dirt off without scrubbing it into the paint. Just be sure to use a *very* high-lubricity shampoo.



When you dry, the more blotting/less wiping you do the better. I'll use my BBT to blot up most of the water, and then do any additonal wiping with a (softer) gray MF from Ian at MicrofiberTech/Autofiber.



The only time I've ever had marring in *only* the LSP, it was with multiple layers of KSG. But you could try redoing some UPP in a spot and see what happens.
 
Washing Acumulator's way, via foam gun is simply wonderful! :xyxthumbs. I don't put the nozzle inside the mitt though. Rather, I make sure I'm shooting a constant stream of foam over one area at a time and use the mitt on that spot only, then move on.
 
while i don't use Accumulator's washing technique, i do like his idea of "Always endeavor to just barely touch the surface." in my case, i put my hand in my wash mitt and try to wash the surface without using much pressure, just enough so that the soap can clean the surface.
 
These days I use the foam gun to inflate the mitt like a balloon; soapy foam seeps out and only the tips of the mitt's nap touch the paint (and just barely). The idea is to just touch the contamination enough to break it loose from the panel (doesn't take much to do that with UPP) and floods it away in the soapy foam.
 
But we need boosted water pressure for that ;) The mitt in one hand, foam gun in the other sure seems to deliver the same results as the "ballooned mitt" technique :up
 
breakneckvtec said:
A little story and some questions:



I put a good amount of time into polishing out my car and my girls car. They both looked perfect. Both cars have 2 coats of UPP on them currently. Well after a few washings there is marring showing up again. I think perhaps I wasnt as careful as I should have been with the drying, perhaps I pressed down on the towel a bit or something, who knows. Usually I let the weight of the towel be the pressure and then just glide it over the paint lightly, I use the BB drying towel.



Is this just one of those neverending battles. I am a little disappointed, the swirls showed back up quicker than anticipated. Is it possible they are swirls in the protectant layer? They are VERY light, and should come right out. IT is dissapointing none the less because winter is on the way and I dont have the time to strip it all down and start over. :mad:



Dont think it makes a difference but both cars were polished out using the SSRs...so no fillers.
Click to expand...



I questioned my washing techniques for a while when after every wash i found more and more streaks and swirls after the wash....In my situation, it wasnt really "swirls, it was simply soap residue that didnt COMPLETELY rinse off. I found that a QD with a quality MF after the wash eliminated everything i was seeing. Try QD'ing that area that you are seeing and see if that works. I think it may just be VERY LIGHT marring in the protective layer or just left over residue from your towel or the soap.
 
Bill D said:
But we need boosted water pressure for that ;)
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Oh yeah, I forgot that I'm spoiled that way :o :D



Maybe I'm just being stubborn/unwilling to further compromise what I think is the best technique...though filling the sheepskin mitt with the gun and using it that way does seem to work fine on the A8, MPV, and Jag. I'm just not willing to take any chances with the S8- I have *NO* intention of doing another big polish job on that car ;)
 
Accumulator,



Are you saying using the "filled balloon-like" method is too dangerous for the S8? How do you wash it?
 
Bill D.- No, no, sorry, I'm not being clear :o Heh heh, with the two threads we have going on this topic (this one and the one on UPP failure) it's getting confusing :D



The balloon-filled method seems the safest, especially when done with a MF (and my boosted water pressure). I use it on the S8 and it's the current version of my "extreme wash technique". I still rinse the mitt frequently and change mitts at least two-three times, sometimes more if the S8 is truly dirty. I go through many reloads of solution in the foam gun, too. Pretty much of a hassle, but easier than the previous nozzle-in-mitt method.



I only use the other, "fill the mitt and let it seep out" method on the A8 and other "drivers" that I'm still trying to be reasonably careful with (as opposed to just using the BHB). This latter method is the one that's probably not as safe as what you do, but it *is* quick and easy by comparison.
 
Accumulator said:
Just be sure to use a *very* high-lubricity shampoo.
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Accumulator, have you tried NXT wash yet? It seems very high lubricity to me...though I've only tried a few...so far anyway ;) :xyxthumbs
 
So where do you get this foam gun? What would be a *safe* way to clean vehicles other than your own....after all, most pro detailers spend more time on their own of course (ie the accumulator method) than their customers. What I would like to know is a suggestion of a quick yet safer way to wash a vehicle. The more I think about it, I've been using the same method over and over because I'm comfortable with it. But there are so many different techniques and nozzles/tools I could use to refine the process and maybe even completely revamp it!



Carl
 
pigeonbus said:
What I would like to know is a suggestion of a quick yet safer way to wash a vehicle.
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I don't know. Using the words quicker and safer in the same sentence when it comes to most things means overpromising and is usually reserved for spin advertising and infomercials ;)
 
pigeonbus said:
So where do you get this foam gun?
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LuckilyI was able to get mine locally at a detail supply store( they do ship) for much less than what automagic.com sells it for. Unfortunately, its a very hard item to find online, I would go only with this specific Gilmour brand model, it has the brash mix ratio adjuster push rod.



For a mobile detailer this is a nice tool as well, you have your car wash enclosed in a bottled unit ready to go.You don't necessarily have to do the extreme washing technique with it. You can really clay the car with the foam as your lube very well too. I did this on 2 cars I did for pay over the summer.
 
I've found the SSR's contain alot of oil that hides swirls. While their initial purpose may not be as a filler they sure do it well. If you're dead set on using them you might want to do a 50/50 ipa h2o wipedown before going to your LSP. The results of the wipedown will surprise you.
 
I wonder if it's the drying towel? I use a Toro 215 mph leaf blower to dry my '02 Audi A4. With Z5 and Z2 on the paint, the water blows off quickly.



Also, I use a lambs wool mitt and the two bucket method. I tried an MF mitt, but the wool mitt holds more water and seems to release dirt particles better. It's worked pretty well so far.



Regards,



Dan.
 
texas328ci said:
Accumulator, have you tried NXT wash yet? It seems very high lubricity to me...
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Nope, gotta admit that I chickened out on trying other shampoos :o This is sorta head-in-the-sand of me to say, but after asking what everyone uses and thinking about it, I decided to just stay with the Griot's rather than take *any* chances with other products. Of course that also means that I'm missing out on the chance of finding something better :o



FWIW (and that's not much :D ) I figured that the NXT wash isn't as "good" as Meg's pro washes, which I used before switching to Griot's. And at least around here, I haven't seen the NXT wash in gallons (I go through a *lot* of wash). Flimsy reasoning, huh? I'll admit it. But for me, this really is one of those "if it's not broke don't fix it" things. There isn't anything about the Griot's that I don't like.



As far as the foamgun goes, IMO it could be a worthwhile tool for a pro. Less marring = less time polishing. And it's the best thing I've found for a pre-soak on really dirty vehicles. Works great when you're using shampoo for clay lube also.



The thing to remember is that it isn't a pressure washer; it's not like it replaces/eliminates any procedures, it just improves them.
 
For a mobile detailer, the foam gun eliminates hassle of a wash bucket, the soap is already in the container ready to go :up
 
I use a foam despenser and there's no foam like it. Water and soap in a bucket is just wasted and dirtied easily. I get 100% pure foam product outta a little product and rinse my mitt after every panel (no bucket) The foam just glides on, you can let it sit, you can use the mitt to gently cleanse the panel, then you rinse both the panel and the mitt.



As for drying, I just posted this about how I don't like using waffle weaves for car drying and this post might be a good example, we all didn't start buying plush microfiber towels cause it felt good on our hands......



Now's the time to point out the reason why I don't use waffle weaves for car drying. I don't believe our car washing techniques (as good as they are) as effective at removing all debris as they should be (it's why the towels aren't always perfectly clean after drying). Waffle has its place for waxing because after cleaner wax your paint finish is in near perfect condition. But it illustrates the point, save your plush towels coupled with QD for your paint drying.
 
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