washing/drying black cars, impossible not to swirl it?

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imported_RZJZA80

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I've detailed mostly black cars now, and every one that is brought back to me to wash and maintain, has swirls in it, and they haven't even washed it.



Is it even possible to wash and dry a black car and not leave ANY swirls in it? I'm using Megs 62 shampoo or duragloss shampoo, MF mitt, bucket with grit guard, everything is clean, but it all still swirls black cars anyway. Any advice?



Side: should I charge more for black cars just because they're such a pain?
 
I personally think it is impossible to wash a car without doing something to degrade the condition of the paint. Mike Phillips says that every time you touch the paint you are either degrading it, or improving its quality.



Quality products, tools, and proper technique may not 100% eliminate wash-induced swirls, but it can certainly help to reduce them.



It usually takes me about 2 months of regular washing and fairly regular quick detailing to begin to see the swirls after I have polished a car. I would think it would be faster than that for most, and slower for some.
 
^on black paint though aero? thats the key i think. black will truly show EVERYthing. u can't hide from black which makes it the ultimate test in both correction and maintaining.



also take into account how hard the CC is on different cars though. some are more resistant while others are really soft
 
nd every one that is brought back to me to wash and maintain, has swirls in it, and they haven't even washed it.
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So swirls are reappearing? What exactly are you using to polish the cars? Sure your not just filling?
 
Dsoto87 said:
So swirls are reappearing? What exactly are you using to polish the cars? Sure your not just filling?
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yes the car was swirl free, but I got it ready for a car meet, and it was raced on the higway alot, so people possible touching it, etc. could have happened in the last couple weeks since I detailed it. I also wiped it down several times along the way with IPA before LSP.



The thing is, just touching a car shouldn't put a swirl into paint, I mean unless you make a swirl motion, should it? I don't wash or dry in a swirl motion either, so how exactly are the swirls forming?
 
Are you completely sure they didnt wash it? And are you completely sure you removed the swirls?



What polish did you use?
 
yeah I asked him and it's been in the garage all this time. I used Megs 85 with 4" LC orange pad on a Makita for the entire car. It has KAIO by PC and a coat of Megs 26 wax on top of that.
 
RZJZA80 said:
yeah I asked him and it's been in the garage all this time. I used Megs 85 with 4" LC orange pad on a Makita for the entire car. It has KAIO by PC and a coat of Megs 26 wax on top of that.
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well there is the problem there is no way you can finish with 85 & an orange pad
 
BigJimZ28 said:
well there is the problem there is no way you can finish with 85 & an orange pad
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I don't understand, what would you suggest after the 85? I saw no swirls at all when I was done with it, should I have gone over it with Megs 80 on a black pad?
 
I think I am going to chime in here on this one since I have a ton of experience with black cars. For the past two years that is all I have been working on. All types of clears from soft to hard. Also, I am the one that has polished them and washed them. Only my hands have been placed on these cars. Here are some pictures of a few of them.



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If you notice the lighting in the garage, the cars sit under canned lighting. These lights show every defect possible. The garage has no natural light to hide anything. I have grown to despise these lights.



But here is my experience.



There is no way of keeping black cars swirl free!!!!:nono



If you touch them with one finger = swirls or smudge

If you brush up against one with a shirt or anything = swirls

If you try to wipe off dust (even with the nicest MF possible) =swirls

IF you make a mistake and breath next to one of them = swirls



I have dedicated two years and 60 hrs a week trying.



Just driving will swirl up a black car because you have dust and grime rubbing against it. If it rains then you have dirty water running over the surface.



Now you can be carefull with the right washing technique to try to keep swirls at a minimum but the second you touch that paint you are inducing some kind of trama to the surface. ONR is a great product and I buy it by gallons full. I also use a blower and have bought every MF ever made. But under the right lighting condition you will see swirls. Trust me.
 
I'll go with fergnation on this one as well as the other post talking about "when you touch it your either degrading or enhancing" or words to that effect.



This is simply true for all colors of paint but the fact that anything will stand out against Black Paint makes it worse.



I've been doing Black Audi's and Jag's and I can tell you once your done with the correction of the paint, the only way for it to stay mar free would be not to touch the paint again and/or even move the car out of the garage.



Now if your an Autopian your looking for a mar free finish all the time (you will see and care about things no one else will except maybe another Autopian or car detailing fanatic).



Let it go is my best advice. Or you'll find yourself Polishing the car out every week after washing it. Do use a good wash technique to keep things to a minimum after that two or three full details a year should be enough.



moRbiD
 
The best way to keep a swirl free finish 24/7 would be monthly applications of a cleaner wax with a polishing agent. Depending on the product, it will likely have just enough cut to take away the light swirls, but not so much that you are wastefully removing clear.



In fact, on the 2011 BLACK Fiesta I have coming I just might test this theory over a six month period with something like ColorX.
 
As a black car owner for decades. NO.



Even with washing with boars hair brushes and Perls soap shot through a foam gun, then drying with a leaf blower, I eventually see swirls.



Not thats my eye. A non-demented person my not see the level of swirling I see, or are just so used to seeing swirls, they think its just how it is.
 
I feel your pain! What I normally do is after every wash (Foam Gun) I quickly apply/use colorX and/or M21 sealant by hand on all horizontal surfaces. This really fills any visible marring and swirling nicely.



I figure, hiding it is the fastest and simplest way without sacrificing time and precious clear coat.
 
I bought this car in July of 08. Driven in snow, washed by hand ,etc. NEVER POLISHED. I just washed and clayed this yesterday in prepartion for a now unecessary polishing on Monday.



DSC_0007G35xhalogen2.jpg






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If I post my black car, you'd think it was here for a correction....
 
What fergnation and everyone else have said is true, BUT,I still think process is part of the problem.



M85 on an orange pad is just not going to finish down mar free every single time. Especially on black
 
MuttGrunt said:
^on black paint though aero? thats the key i think. black will truly show EVERYthing. u can't hide from black which makes it the ultimate test in both correction and maintaining.



also take into account how hard the CC is on different cars though. some are more resistant while others are really soft
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Yes on black cars.
 
Dsoto87 said:
What fergnation and everyone else have said is true, BUT,I still think process is part of the problem.



M85 on an orange pad is just not going to finish down mar free every single time. Especially on black
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See my white car? Same wash process as my black car. But no VISIBLE sirling. Could a black base act as a magnifier of swirls in clear?



If the two were single stage, I'd attribute it to a softer pigment in the black paint.



One difference I will site is that the Infiniti (white) has "hard clear". My black Jeep does not. The swirls are in the clear, not the color.
 
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