Wash mitt vs. brush

S

Shane.belzers

New member
I would like some thoughts. We hand wash with the traditional method at our shop. Currently we rinse, soap, rinse using brushes, faster and less messy (for the person) than mitts. But do we pose a higher risk marring etc.. with brushes or are they pretty safe this say in age?



Thanks
 
I know the standard green twisted nylon brushes are better than most brushes, but not nearly as safe as a good wash mitt.



I've been wondering if anyone makes a brush that is made with wash mitt material. Where I live its generally warm enough to wash year round but often gets close to freezing...not having to dip your hands in ice cold water would be nice, especially if you know that your not damaging paint.
 
I could offer up several years and years regarding this issue, however it would take way too much time.

So, if you need the "get it done" way, at least use "flayed" bristle brushes, (Valugard has these on their inventory reduction sale going on now, just contact bethb@autoint.com)

When I was working in LA with the Chrysler and Ford Pre-Delivery Prep Centers, where they were doing 500 to 700 new car preps a day, they used 9x9 wash mitts. The vehicles came through, there were two people(one on each side) who washed with a mitt, the tops, windows,hoods, trunks, down to just below the windows, and the vehicle moved forward, where two people then washed, with mitts, down to the rest of the vehicle. Then it went through an automatic rinse cycle.

After one hundred vehicles, the mitts that were used by the first group for the tops, were moved to the second group who did the lower portion of the vehicles. Those who did the tops of the vehicles took new mitts to continue.

After 100 vehicles, those mitts were trashed.

As time went on and labor costs rose, due to wages, benefits, both moved to automatic units for the wash process, with a few exceptions when a "high dollar" or such vehicle was involved.

For large vans, etc, they used the "flayed bristle" brushes and they do less damage to the paint surfaces.
 
I use a flagged polypropylene brush from Vikan, I have a couple attached to water fed poles. They pose little risk of swirling and are very soft to touch.
 
JPostal said:
I've been wondering if anyone makes a brush that is made with wash mitt material.
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Meguiars makes (or is that made, you never know with them), a wash mit on a stick. A novel concept that was terrible in real life. If you make the mit plush enough, it gets caught in places. If you make it too flat, it misses spots. Meguiars got somewhere in the middle.



IMO, especially on a very dirty car, nothing beats a mitt. The key is good gloves and hot water to keep the hands warm.
 
It's not shown on their web site, but ValuGard got over stocked on the 9 by 9 wash mitts, having a stock reduction sale, the mitts are normally around $5, the "sale" price is $1.76, good buy.

You have to contact Beth to get the deal, they also have other products in this sale, like the 30X lighted magnifer for $3, 5 gallons of dressings,($30 to $35 a pail, Carnuba Cream Wax, on and on.

You can call her at 800-543-7156, they are in Cincinnati.[/B]
 
I'm probably the resident Boar's Hair Brush fanatic, I use 'em at *EVERY* wash, and simply don't wash without them. BUT...



-I only use them in conjunction with a foamgun, and my whole wash regimen rigamarole is *NOT* something I can see working well in a commercial setting (sure didn't do it that way at my dealership!). The whole point is the way the foamgun output flows through the bristles, flushing away the dirt as soon as the bristles dislodge it (my rinse buckets stay clean even when I wash an utterly filthy vehicle and I basically never mar my paint when I wash any more)

-The safest BHBs are so gentle as to be *too* gentle for many applications, at least if used by themselves;I use them for the first passes, to get the "big stuff" off (I then do more passes with a mitt, also using the foamgun for constant flooding of the surface) and this might not work well on a vehicle that's not well-LSPed





Used by themselves, it'd be awfully hart to get a dirty vehicle truly clean unless you used such aggressive techniques (e.g., pressing so hard that you bend the bristles over and "scrub with the bristle shafts", which as a huge :nono ) that you're gonna mar the finish.



But if a vehicle isn't all that dirty they wouldn't be any worse marring-wise than a mitt. I used BHBs without a foamgun for many years before YoSteve (remember him?!?) introduced Autopia to foamguns back around 1999. The trick is to only let the very ends/tips of the bristles contact the paint and to rinse/dunk/etc. very frequently even though the BHBs lend themselves to the temptation to do large areas (e.g., entire panels) at a time because they hold so much shampoo mix.



The "flow through" BHBs never worked out all that well IME unless you rig up a siphon-feed to pump shampoo mix through them instead of plain water. And the ones I've used (from Griot's) weren't all *that* soft, certainly not as soft as the regular BHBs I use.



See my BHB Comparison thread for details on which BHBs I think are OK (recently updated too).



I would *NEVER* touch paint that I cared about with synthetic bristles. I've used the better "flagged tip" ones (the best of which, IMO, was sold by TOL back in the '80s and is no longer available) and sooner or later one/more bristles will wear down its flagging and then it's scratch time. Sure, "they work fine!"... right up until they don't.
 
Ya we currently use the green bristle brushes which seem very soft to me. So your brush/foam gun action is that like to coin-op sites where the brush soaps or what? I have a foam gun on order but thats really only going to be used for used details and customer details where im removing everything for a fresh prep/ wax etc..



Who sells the boars hair brushes?
 
Don't know, but bet they cost an arm and a leg. ValuGard has the flayed/flagged tip "truck" brushes in that sale going on, normal cost of around $59 each, on sale for $11.25, Water Sprites, normal price around $24 for $9. Some real deals while they last.

When I was still working we had the Saab private label busines, and the guy in charge at Saab, insisted on having a hand held boar's hair brush in a car care kit. They finally became so high priced to the company and next to impossible to get them, that Saab finally had us put in a flayed bristle hand brush. Which was really just like a truck brush, but no hole for the pole.
 
Accumulator, can tou describe your wash process in detail please? Ive been wanting a bhb for awhile now.



I imagine you with bhb in one hand and gilmour foam gun in other. With water only rinse bucket on the ground. Prerinse with power washer and then wash/soap with gilmour and bhb while rinsing bhb frequently in bucket.
 
To see where to get good BHBs, check out my BHB Comparison thread. Really, it's worth the dreaded SEARCH! The PC I'm on makes linking a hassle...uhm...go to "advanced search", search under "BHB Comparison" with my user-name...you oughta find it.



OK, OK, short answer- Buy the "Blonde" ones here: Universal Brush



I'm awful about this, I never take the time to write up a proper "how I wash". Eh, it's gonna take a few hours of concentrated effort, not the multi-tasking quickie posts I usually do.



Thumbnail sketch (apologies for typos/etc., this is coming out as fast as I can type):



-Mix foamgun concentrate to ~6oz. shampoo per gallon water. Use three most postent foamgun settings, choosing which depending on situation

-Rinse car

-Presoak with foamgun output

-Soak BHB in bucket of regular shampoo mix

-Spray foamgun output at point of BHB-to-paint contact to provide constant flushing and lubrication

-Move BHB in short, interrupted, "jiggling" motions (the interruputions and "jiggling) make it easier for the foamgun output to flush away dislodged dirt and avoiding long, sweeping motions means that any scratches that do happen won't be long/obvious ones)

-Use minimal contact pressure so only tips of BHB touch paint, don't let bristles bend over; you don't want the bristle shafts to touch the paint

-Wash very small areas at a time until you're confident you can do larger ones

-Rinse BHB very frequently and redunk in wash bucket before resuming wash

-Rinse and inspect panel

-Repeat as needed until panel appears clean

-Rewash with mitt using the same technique: fill mitt with either shampoo bucket solution or foamgun output and hold shut at cuff and gently whisk across panel as opposed to wearing like a glove (too much pressure that way)

-Rinse/inspect

-Remove anything that's still stuck to the paint using extra-fine clay, moving clay no more than one inch before kneading to avoid long scratches if something goes wrong, then rewash with mitt

-Rinse

-Blow off water with AirWand and compressor

-Dry with WW MFs, spritzing panels with QD to provide lubrication, do final buff with WWMF after fogging surface with your breath to provide a tiny by of consdensation



Yeah, it's a bit of work, but not exactly what I'd call a workout. No harder than the hours spent before/after doing the undercarriage and engine compartment/etc.
 
Ron Ketcham said:
Don't know, but bet they cost an arm and a leg. ValuGard has the flayed/flagged tip "truck" brushes in that sale going on, normal cost of around $59 each, on sale for $11.25, Water Sprites, normal.....................................
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Ron, turn your BOLD off, bud. It's giving me a headache! :)
 
Am trying to shut it off, just for you.

Of course, in your business, in the real world, am sure you often have to make changes to make people happy and accept your services?

By the way, I notice you don't ever join the "Chat Room" on Wednesday night, are you ever going to come in and offer up your expertise?
 
Brad B. said:
My hero. :)
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Heh heh, I take that as High Praise indeed, coming from you!



Ya know...thinking of that wonderful XK you had... as I prepare to wash the Tahoe later today I was thinking how my "beater-car maintenance washes" are quite a bit more meticulous than my what my Jag Club of Ohio friends do for JCNA concours prep (and I don't mean the "driven" class ;) ). Definitely my forte when it comes to this detailing stuff.
 
Accumulator said:
OK, OK, short answer- Buy the "Blonde" ones here: Universal Brush
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I know many people are probably looking at the cost of the brush and saying "now way". My view is, if I can wash my car in the winter w/o marring it to death and needing to compound it every single spring, it is worth it.
 
bert31 said:
I know many people are probably looking at the cost of the brush and saying "now way". My view is, if I can wash my car in the winter w/o marring it to death and needing to compound it every single spring, it is worth it.
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Yeah, that's the way I see it too. Only so much time and clearcoat! They last a good long time too.



Note that the "blonde" ones are *awfully* gentle. When I did the Tahoe yesterday I used their slightly more aggressive one (the one that AutoGeek sells as the "Montana") and I was still doing maybe four passes with the BHBs before switching to the mitts. That thing was *filthy*, took more than three *gallons* of shampoo mix through the foamguns! But no marring, no LSP stripping, no problems at all other than all the time/effort/expense (3 x 6oz. for the foamguns + 2 x ~3 oz. for what was in each shampoo bucket= !!24oz.!! of GG Car Wash :eek: ).
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, that's the way I see it too. Only so much time and clearcoat! They last a good long time too.
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Oh so true



Accumulator said:
Note that the "blonde" ones are *awfully* gentle. When I did the Tahoe yesterday I used their slightly more aggressive one (the one that AutoGeek sells as the "Montana")
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I can't imagine anything softer than the Montanas cleaning effectively, I often have to make several passes with the my Montana. How did the Montana do with your CD test?



Accumulator said:
took more than three *gallons* of shampoo mix through the foamguns! But no marring, no LSP stripping, no problems at all other than all the time/effort/expense (3 x 6oz. for the foamguns + 2 x ~3 oz. for what was in each shampoo bucket= !!24oz.!! of GG Car Wash :eek: ).
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How many ounces do you use on a typical wash? About 12? Griot's must love you.
 
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