Wanted: The Invisible Polymer

imported_Dude

New member
This weekend, I stripped the Einszett from my blue Jeep (not that I don't like Einszett- I do- I just felt that it looked better on my wife's silver car).



My original plan was to go back to Zaino. Just for fun, though, I decided to go the pure carnuba route for a week, just to see what it looked like. I have never used just carnuba on my car; I've always gone with a polymer or a polymer with a carnuba topper. In any event, the pure carnuba approach that I chose involved an application of P21S GEPC via PC and a coat of S100 by hand.



I can't go back to Zaino. I just can't. Not now. Not after experiencing the pure carnuba shine. Not on this dark blue car, anyway. The S100 just looked so good- SO good. I was speechless. Words simply cannot describe how good the car looks.



However, as good as the carnuba looks, it isn't a viable long term solution. This is a dark blue car, and will swirl at the drop of a hat. Therefore, I want to have some sort of polymer base coat, whcih I will then top with a carnuba wax.



I am hoping that my fellow Autopians will be good enough to help me select a polymer. Here are my criteria, in order of importance:



1. It must be INVISIBLE. Ideally, I am interested in a polymer that looks like bare paint. Some polymers, like Einszett and BF, attempt to mimic the look of a carnuba wax. Otheres, like Zaino, are very clear but somehow become muted when a carnuba topper is applied to them. I don't want either look. I want an invisible polymer. When I apply a carnuba topper to it, I want the resulting polymer/carnuba combo to look just like a bare paint/carnuba combo.



2. It should be NON-ABRASIVE. I have taken great pains to keep my paint largely swirl-free. I don't want to introduce any swirls with an abrasive product.



3. It should be LAYERABLE. I would go with Meguiar's #20, but I don't think it can be layered (Meguiar's has taken inconsistent positions on the question of #20 layerability).



4. It should not be DIFFICULT to remove or apply. I just want to spread it on and buff it off. No hazing; no smearing; just wax on, wax off.



5. It should last at least SIX MONTHS.



If there is no single product that meets all of these criteria, I am willing to compromise. Right now, though, I am hoping to find something that meets most of them.



Thank you very much for any suggestions. I really appreciate it!
 
Dude said:
I can't go back to Zaino. I just can't. Not now. Not after experiencing the pure carnuba shine. Not on this dark blue car, anyway. The S100 just looked so good- SO good. I was speechless. Words simply cannot describe how good the car looks.



Dude,



Your reaction was pretty similar to MY reaction when first using "carnauba-only" on my wife's black car. I don't mean to diss Zaino, but I think the Zaino-look on dark colored paint is highly subjective....some ppl love it, some ppl do not. I'm one of those who do not like it. I was stunned at how good a coat of Meguiar's Hand Polish + Blitz looked on the car...and I'm even more impressed by how P21S GEPC + Carnauba looks.



I think I know what you're getting at with the "invisible polymer", because I've always felt that using a polymer base for a carnauba topper only "detracts" from the wonderful shine of a good quality carnauba wax. I've done the AIO + SG (4) + Souveran combo before and while it looked terrific, I think using carnauba only looks even better.



So to clarify your desire for an "invisible polymer", you are looking for a polymer that will supposedly not "detract" from the carnauba-look (ever since your Love at first sight encounter with P21S). Am I correct? In my opinion (and this may not be the answer your looking for), I think Blackfire II will be the perfect polymer-base to carnauba, because it definitely will not detract from the carnauba look you are trying to attain. It's non-abrasive, layerable, & easy to work with.



Also, even if a polymer is "invisible", wouldn't it still create the silver-reflection that would detract from the natural beauty of a carnauba? I'm suggesting BF because it truly is similar to the deep, warm & "glowing" shine created by a good carnauba wax. In fact, the only meaningful difference I can see is that P21S has a little extra "pop" in shine. Warmth, depth, etc. all seem pretty much the same.
 
here is my suggestion, klasse SG + S100, or BF + S100. Here is a pic of klasse SG + S100.



2597full_exterior.jpg






here is a pic of a blue GS400 with blackfire (old forumla) and S100.



2597pic00141.jpg
 
If you really don't want a polymer to interfere (add) to the appearance, you might consider just Klasse AIO. It really doesn't change the look of the paint much. It has more sparkle, but anything you put on the paint will change the way light is reflected. Better to increase it than dull it. Other than that AIO doesn't really give much of a look to paint. It's really sort of boring, except that it's so easy and durable. SG is what really gives the car a "pop". So maybe you should just try AIO and then your S100.



I would agree with the others that SG or BF with S100 would give you a better look, but if that isn't what you are shooting for, AIO would probably change the S100 look the least while providing a durable base.
 
Sadly, you are not going to find a totally "invisable" polymer. They are all going to change the surface somewhat, it's just a matter of how much.



For your car I would suggest a single layer of Z5, then start with the caranuba. Or maybe you could try the new BlackFire, it might suit your needs a little better due to it's oil content. I have not tried the new stuff, I hear durability is improved over the previous version. I would not use Klasse AIO, I don't think it will provide enough protection for what you seek. The product is kinda weak in the durability department as a stand alone product.



I suspect the new BlackFire will probably suit your needs best for a good base, give it a shot!



Good Luck!
 
I have tried nearly every sealant (and a carnauba topper). I love the carnauba look on a car but also the sealant benefits. The best is AIO as the base (will give you 6 months and great high end quality) then top with your Ps21 or other. I choose to add SGx5 as an in between step, but, it is not necessary (test it out and see which one is best for you). There are other good sealants that you can use, but, Klasse has proven to be the most compatible with any carnauba IMO.:)
 
Al, the blue lexus finish looks like it has both more depth and glow than the black SUV, even though the photo of the lexus appears to have been taken as it is getting dark. Do you think the BF/S100 combination actually achieves a more glowing finish than the SG/S100 combo? Or are we seeing just a difference of black vs. blue?



Thanks!
 
I'm not sure if I still want to recommend BF II as a base for your carnauba. I just realized (which I didn't notice up to now) that I'm having a terrible smearing problem with the product. I just noticed it yesterday while looking at my car under the direct sunlight. I'll try to post more info as I try to get the problem fixed.
 
Really Tony? I have not tried the new version of the product so I can't really comment. Wonder if the oil content is too high? :confused:
 
SL,



It just seems a little bit "unstable". Compared to the previous version, it definitely feels more oily and the oils seem to never "dry".



The car would look terrific in the garage...even under bright flourescent lights. But if I run my finger across the surface or bring it out into the sunlight, the smeariness is obvious. I used LESS than a dime-sized drop to cover the entire hood, let it dry for several hours and it was still smeary. I spritzed the panel with water and that didn't work either. Also, working the product into the paint till nearly clear & dry does not work with BF II the way it does with glazes and polishes. This stuff just DOESN'T thin out or get consumed by your app when applying. Hopefully, I'll figure out a technique that will work for me and my car. As always... YMMV.
 
AlBoston said:
intermezzo just created the new blackfire "haze" lol!



Puahaha! Guess I did, but I'm gonna fix it! Funny thing is, I didn't have a problem at all with another car I did (red Infinity). I guess my car is a bit finicky.
 
here is another pic to help you out dude.... AIO + S100 on a corvette.



2597pic00170.jpg




you can see the can of S100 sitting on the windshield if you look closely :)



2597pic00164.jpg
 
Intermezzo said:
Puahaha! Guess I did, but I'm gonna fix it! Funny thing is, I didn't have a problem at all with another car I did (red Infinity). I guess my car is a bit finicky.

Any possibility your problem is with the BMW? Seems like I have read that some of the German paints don't always give the same results as other paints when different products are used.

Just a thought.



Charles
 
Intermezzo said:
I'm not sure if I still want to recommend BF II as a base for your carnauba. I just realized (which I didn't notice up to now) that I'm having a terrible smearing problem with the product. I just noticed it yesterday while looking at my car under the direct sunlight. I'll try to post more info as I try to get the problem fixed.
I had the same problem with the first layer I put on . . . I added another layer the following day, and let it dry several hours (first layer only sat maybe 30 minutes), and that seemed to do the trick. Z6 also seemed to help somewhat . . . on the first layer (which smeard *badly*), Z6 did help to reduce the oily appearance, and on one spot of the roof where I tried several passes of Z6, most of the smearing was eliminated. The second layer of BFII came off much more cleanly with the longer dry time, and Z6 seemed to take care of what little smearing was left.



I hope this doesn't turn into a continual fight whenever I use BFII . . . I really like the look and love the slickness, but if I can see it smear on bright silver (my WRX), I'm really concerned about the results I'll see on any dark-colored car that I take on.



Tort
 
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