Vintage car/paint
- Thread starter ehgvette
- Start date
It's likely acrylic lacquer , as acrylic enamel came on later in the 1960's. Lacquer polishes up nicely, but can dull back down quick too since it has mostly solvents and has very little solids. Acrylic enamel would be on a late 60's Caddy, but I don't think early 60's had that yet. Acrylic enamel is pretty thick, by today's standards, around 10 -12 MILs where today our clearcoat is ~2 MILs.
You can surely use today's products on either of that paint and get good results, it's the opposite you have to worry about (i.e. using compounds from the 60's on today's clears).
You will find it pretty hard paint if it's in good shape, and you *may* have to go up a step in abrasives (med cut compound instead of fine cut etc. because of the paint type) due to the fact today's products are much more refined and less harsh then their 1960's counterparts. You may only need fine grit polishes anyway. Most 3M products (and others) for today's paints also state their effectiveness on lacquers, so go by that when choosing a product.
Man, I love seeing old cars like that with their original paint, gives me a warm fuzzy ( I know, i'm weird). Cheers. Dan H
You can surely use today's products on either of that paint and get good results, it's the opposite you have to worry about (i.e. using compounds from the 60's on today's clears).
You will find it pretty hard paint if it's in good shape, and you *may* have to go up a step in abrasives (med cut compound instead of fine cut etc. because of the paint type) due to the fact today's products are much more refined and less harsh then their 1960's counterparts. You may only need fine grit polishes anyway. Most 3M products (and others) for today's paints also state their effectiveness on lacquers, so go by that when choosing a product.
Man, I love seeing old cars like that with their original paint, gives me a warm fuzzy ( I know, i'm weird). Cheers. Dan H
Accumulator
Well-known member
Guitarman said:
You and me both. Doing those would be a real pleasure.
russellp23 - If you're used to clearcoats, don't :scared about some color transfer to your pads. As long as you're using mild products, it should just be oxidized, "dead" paint that you WANT to remove.
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
Hi russellp23
Just by chance, my absolute favorite thing to do is to restore old, antique and original paint, which I have indeed rubbed out many original finishes.
I would even go as far as saying I consider myself an expert at restoring vintage paint and recently helped two different gentlemen restore the original paint on a 1965 Harley Davidson, and a 1954 Corvette. Both found sitting in barns, both with paint that had been neglected for decades.
(Yeah I know, it's hard to believe there are still Corvettes, let alone a 1954 Corvette, sitting/hidden in barns)
In the words of Dizzy Dean, (a famous sports announcer known for his folksy style)
"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
That said,
I respectfully disagree with what Guitarman wrote about older paints being hard,
Actually, acrylic lacquers are very soft compared to modern catalyzed paints. How hard a single stage paint is, (or is not), depends upon the pigment type used to color the resin.
Because these finishes are old, they are what I would consider, fragile. Thus, if I were to restore them, I would follow Meguiar's advise and use the least aggressive product necessary to get the job done.
That said, if you want, I would be happy to tell you "how I would do it using Meguiar's", but only if the Mod's give me permission because I don't want this to appear to be a commercial for Meguiar's.
I would point out that many of the products I'm going to tell you to use were specifically formulated for these types of paints and work exceedingly well.
Check out this thread about what older paints were made from,
http://www.showcargarage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181
I could also just send you an e-mail. Most of this how-to is contained in my how-to book, (which isn't ready yet) but you can sign up to be notified when it is here
Let me know,
Here's an "After" picture of the Corvette, after following the procedures and using the products I outlined in an e-mail to the owner.
Note: This was all done using a Dual-Action Polisher, I feel confident, the gloss could even be higher with a careful machine cleaning, followed by a careful machine polishing using a rotary buffer.
Just by chance, my absolute favorite thing to do is to restore old, antique and original paint, which I have indeed rubbed out many original finishes.
I would even go as far as saying I consider myself an expert at restoring vintage paint and recently helped two different gentlemen restore the original paint on a 1965 Harley Davidson, and a 1954 Corvette. Both found sitting in barns, both with paint that had been neglected for decades.
(Yeah I know, it's hard to believe there are still Corvettes, let alone a 1954 Corvette, sitting/hidden in barns)
In the words of Dizzy Dean, (a famous sports announcer known for his folksy style)
"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
That said,
I respectfully disagree with what Guitarman wrote about older paints being hard,
Actually, acrylic lacquers are very soft compared to modern catalyzed paints. How hard a single stage paint is, (or is not), depends upon the pigment type used to color the resin.
Because these finishes are old, they are what I would consider, fragile. Thus, if I were to restore them, I would follow Meguiar's advise and use the least aggressive product necessary to get the job done.
That said, if you want, I would be happy to tell you "how I would do it using Meguiar's", but only if the Mod's give me permission because I don't want this to appear to be a commercial for Meguiar's.
I would point out that many of the products I'm going to tell you to use were specifically formulated for these types of paints and work exceedingly well.
Check out this thread about what older paints were made from,
http://www.showcargarage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181
I could also just send you an e-mail. Most of this how-to is contained in my how-to book, (which isn't ready yet) but you can sign up to be notified when it is here
Let me know,
Here's an "After" picture of the Corvette, after following the procedures and using the products I outlined in an e-mail to the owner.
Note: This was all done using a Dual-Action Polisher, I feel confident, the gloss could even be higher with a careful machine cleaning, followed by a careful machine polishing using a rotary buffer.
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Scott P
New member
That is one good looking car. The only old vehicles in barns around here are made by International or Farmall. 
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
Hi Guitarman,
Check! (no pun intended)
What I mean is you’re correct. Nitrocellulose and even Acrylic Lacquer paints are know to Lacquer Check.
This looks like the mud in a pond after the pond has dried up and the mud has cracked and separated.
All the more reason to be oh so gentle with older paints. They are brittle.
That's why the first thing I do before I work on an older paint is to condition the paint by rubbing, (the word rubbing chosen carefully to denote more than wiping a product on, the finish down with an application of Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze to more, or less, saturate the pores of these types of paint with oil, to make them more workable, rather than just diving into them with a compound or paint cleaner.
It's an Extra Step, but if the original paint is important to the owner, then a step I feel is worth it.
p.s.
Dumb question… do you play guitar, or work on guitars?
I have sanded down and buffed out a few guitars. The owners stripped them and then held them while I ran the buffer. Just curious.
Check! (no pun intended)
What I mean is you’re correct. Nitrocellulose and even Acrylic Lacquer paints are know to Lacquer Check.
This looks like the mud in a pond after the pond has dried up and the mud has cracked and separated.
All the more reason to be oh so gentle with older paints. They are brittle.
That's why the first thing I do before I work on an older paint is to condition the paint by rubbing, (the word rubbing chosen carefully to denote more than wiping a product on, the finish down with an application of Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze to more, or less, saturate the pores of these types of paint with oil, to make them more workable, rather than just diving into them with a compound or paint cleaner.
It's an Extra Step, but if the original paint is important to the owner, then a step I feel is worth it.
p.s.
Dumb question… do you play guitar, or work on guitars?
I have sanded down and buffed out a few guitars. The owners stripped them and then held them while I ran the buffer. Just curious.
LOL, well here's my background FWIW
I was a professional musician/ guitar instructor most of my early adult life, from 18 till about 33 when I decided to give up the travel. I worked in mostly rock/blues bands in the Philadelphia area, for a booking agency called Apollo Artists Attractions (found them on the web recently, still around- to my surprise) that kept me going 50 weeks out of the year, 4 to 6 nights a week for almost 10 years. I got pretty burnt out. I have classical guitar, and jazz training, and although I cut my teeth on rock/blues stuff with the clubwork, I lean towards contemporary jazz nowadays.
Since I have some background in auto painting, I have refinished a couple guitars, and there's one I am about to do soon that I keep putting off ...it's the guitar that I did my clubwork with, and it needs a resto. I was never one to worry too much about the cosmetics of my axe when I was working (too difficult when you use it they way I did), just the sound. Today I'd like it to look good again.
I will probably use the DuPont Chroma multi-use clear that I have for my car work, I see others are doing similar now. Neat.
I do use my buffer on my acoustic guitar at least once a year. Fun
I was a professional musician/ guitar instructor most of my early adult life, from 18 till about 33 when I decided to give up the travel. I worked in mostly rock/blues bands in the Philadelphia area, for a booking agency called Apollo Artists Attractions (found them on the web recently, still around- to my surprise) that kept me going 50 weeks out of the year, 4 to 6 nights a week for almost 10 years. I got pretty burnt out. I have classical guitar, and jazz training, and although I cut my teeth on rock/blues stuff with the clubwork, I lean towards contemporary jazz nowadays.
Since I have some background in auto painting, I have refinished a couple guitars, and there's one I am about to do soon that I keep putting off ...it's the guitar that I did my clubwork with, and it needs a resto. I was never one to worry too much about the cosmetics of my axe when I was working (too difficult when you use it they way I did), just the sound. Today I'd like it to look good again.
I will probably use the DuPont Chroma multi-use clear that I have for my car work, I see others are doing similar now. Neat.
I do use my buffer on my acoustic guitar at least once a year. Fun
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
K0oL
While I'm certainly no musician, I did run the lights for a couple of bands for years in my home town.
Too much fun!
Mike
While I'm certainly no musician, I did run the lights for a couple of bands for years in my home town.
Too much fun!
Mike
Accumulator
Well-known member
Mike Phillips said:
Mike- I just got on your notify list (I'm the entry for 1 Oct. '03 at 1926 hrs) and I'm on the edge of my seat. Given the nature of some of my toys (no, no, nothing interesting by most standards
), I am VERY interested in techniques for preserving original, s/s paint. What I've been doing has worked OK so far (18 years on the Jag), but if I can do better I'm all for it.Please PM me if you decide/are instructed to NOT post the procedures/products you alluded to above. The work you did on that 'vette is really outstanding :bow
Yeah, checking and cracking...like around the fuel filler of EVERY Series I-III Jaguar XJ6/12 I've ever seen...
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
Accumulator said:
K0oL
I haven't heard either way yet. I just don't want to get into trouble with anyone.
But I'm in testing most of tomorrow, and leaving for St. Louis on Friday, so time is a running short
imported_garyo
New member
Mike,
I too would like to hear what you have to say and the technique you recommend. My toy has a s/s paint and I don't want to screw it up. I have been very conservative and have not done any type of polishing on it all for the 2 years I have owned it. That said I would like to get out some of the swirls and make it look better but I got really concerned with the "die back" concept. Just post. We are asking so it isn't "unsolicited".
I too would like to hear what you have to say and the technique you recommend. My toy has a s/s paint and I don't want to screw it up. I have been very conservative and have not done any type of polishing on it all for the 2 years I have owned it. That said I would like to get out some of the swirls and make it look better but I got really concerned with the "die back" concept. Just post. We are asking so it isn't "unsolicited".
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
I'll post a write-up, but it will have to be after the St. Louis GTG, it's 4:30pm here in Irvine right now, and I havn't even began to pack for the trip. I thought I could have posted something today, but I was involved testing with R&D since 7:00am this morning.
Sorry for the delay.
Sorry for the delay.
imported_garyo
New member
Ok Mike we have been patient We (well at least I would) want to know what you have to say.
We (well at least I would) want to know what you have to say.Mike_Phillips
Administrator
I hear you loud and clear.
I held a Mercedes-Benz clinic Saturday, a Miata Clinic Sunday, I had to write reports and answer e-mails all day Monday.
Just now, the Red Miata that I did the "Before and After", Side-by-Side" demonstration on, just pulled in for me to buff out the other halves.
I hear you on the write-up, loud and clear. It is on my "To-Do" list.
In fact, I'm going Walk the Talk, and as NIKE says, "Just Do It", on this 1936 Oldsmobile for Autopia.
So as I tell my son, "hold your horses"… I’ll get to it.
I held a Mercedes-Benz clinic Saturday, a Miata Clinic Sunday, I had to write reports and answer e-mails all day Monday.
Just now, the Red Miata that I did the "Before and After", Side-by-Side" demonstration on, just pulled in for me to buff out the other halves.
I hear you on the write-up, loud and clear. It is on my "To-Do" list.
In fact, I'm going Walk the Talk, and as NIKE says, "Just Do It", on this 1936 Oldsmobile for Autopia.
So as I tell my son, "hold your horses"… I’ll get to it.
Attachments
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
If I don't use this car, I have an all original 1956 Ford Sunliner in the wings.