Using PC for the very first time

B

bonoz

New member
Hey guys,



Earlier this afternoon I started using the PC for a bit, just to get a hang of it.



And to be honest, I was scared at first to use it on my car due to lack of confidence and the immense noise, vibration, and speed of that thing. I was scared I might not be able to handle it. But I think it's gonna take some practice.



Well my question is,



This is what I'm doing:

going from least abbrasive pad/polish combo to the one that I perfect.



then someone told me to go back from perfect combo down to the least abbrasive for each panel.



Now my question is, is this what we do to avoid Buffer Gaze? what is that?





and my second question is, for the areas that I have used to test the pad/polish combo, do I still go through to the least abbrasive combo? even though I started off with the least abbrassive combo?





Thanks. I'd search but I have no idea which keywords to use to search.
 
You are certainly right to start on a test area with the least abbrassive combo first and then work up till you find one that is removing the swilrs to your satisfaction... Once you have done that, then I would use a finer polish (if you have used a higher abrasive polish) to refine the finish - the reason we do this is aggressive cutting polishes can leave there own marring on the paint finish by the nature of the way they work, so following with a finer polish will remove this light marring and give a finish thats crystal clear ready for your glaze/sealent/wax.



Yes - even on the test area, if you've gone up to an aggressive polish, follow up again with the milder abrasive even though you have already used it as the use of a more aggressive combo may have inflicted its own light marring that you will want to remove.



Re: the PC use, it can be quite daunting at first, espeically with the noise and the vibration, but dont worry - its a very safe machine and unlikely to do any damage to your paintwork... feel confident in using it, relax (dont tense up) as this makes moving the machine and keeping the pad flat on the surface easier, take your time and ultimately, enjoy the process of transforming the finish on your car. :up
 
Dave KG said:
You are certainly right to start on a test area with the least abbrassive combo first and then work up till you find one that is removing the swilrs to your satisfaction... Once you have done that, then I would use a finer polish (if you have used a higher abrasive polish) to refine the finish - the reason we do this is aggressive cutting polishes can leave there own marring on the paint finish by the nature of the way they work, so following with a finer polish will remove this light marring and give a finish thats crystal clear ready for your glaze/sealent/wax.



Yes - even on the test area, if you've gone up to an aggressive polish, follow up again with the milder abrasive even though you have already used it as the use of a more aggressive combo may have inflicted its own light marring that you will want to remove.



Re: the PC use, it can be quite daunting at first, espeically with the noise and the vibration, but dont worry - its a very safe machine and unlikely to do any damage to your paintwork... feel confident in using it, relax (dont tense up) as this makes moving the machine and keeping the pad flat on the surface easier, take your time and ultimately, enjoy the process of transforming the finish on your car. :up
Click to expand...





First of all thank you so very much.:thx



Second, these are the polishes and pads I have:



Polishes:

-Menzerna Power Gloss

-Menzerna Intensive Polish

-Menzerna Final Polish II

-Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze

-Klasse AIO



Pads:

-2 White pads

-1 Orange pad

-1 Yellow pad

-1 Black pad



Now, I will use the white and orange pads with the final polish and IP, at first, and find a good combo. If I haven't found a good combo, I will try polishes with yellow pad.



I also have a black pad.



First question: What should I use; Finishing touch glaze or AIO? or both? both with black pad? both as final polishes before applying sealant? which one should I apply first?



Second question: Is it ok to "wipe" off the remaining residue? or should I blot it because maybe it might cause more scratches?



Third question: How hard should I press on the PC?



Fourth question: Should I clean my pads after each use on each panel? With a dish washing soap? then use water to rinse it? Or not even bother cleaning my pads?



Fifth question: When I was using PC this morning, it seemed as though the polish was becoming a residue in the first pass alone. Like, I smeared the polish onto the area, and used speed 1 to smear the polish even more, then moved to speed 5 to polish it, it took only "one" pass over the area for the polish to become residue. Or maybe it was the lack of light in my garage? (which I fixed by buying two halogen lights on a stand, like the pro's ;).





I know I've asked a lot, but any help will be appreciated :)



Thanks in advance :2thumbs:
 
Hi, to answer you questions:



First question:

The Finishing Touch Glaze is a pure glaze, while the AIO is acutally a chemical cleaner and sealent combined, they are different products. If you give the car the full Menzerna works, I would be personally tempted to go with the Finishing Touch Glaze, this is a really nice product and gives an excellent wettness to the paint. I woudn't use the AIO after this as the cleaners in the AIO will remove all the glazing oils you put down. They can both be used on the black pad. If you want to apply both I would go with the AIO first and then the FTG, but you will need to thoroughly wash the pad after the AIO before using the FTG with it.



Second question:

The reamiaing residue is safe to wipe off, you wont cause any scratches providing you use a good quality microfibre towel.. What you can do is spray a little quick detailer spray on the area or on the towel to give a little lubrication which makes wiping off the residue even safer. Also, if any residue are tough to remove and require more than a gently wipe, then I would spray with a little qd to aid removal.



Third question:

For defect removal, I would apply between 10 and 15lbs of pressure on the PC. To get a good gauge while working, draw a black line on your backing plate. You are aiming to keep the pad truning at all times, so make sure the line is always turning. I would push down on the PC until the pad stops spinning and then lift off until the pad begins to spin again and this is generally about the correct pressure. For applying glazes and waxes, you are looking to apply very little pressure - infact the weight of the machine should be enough.



Fourth question:

You dont need to clean your pads during a detail - but what I would certainly do is keep a stiff brush (like a toothbrush) and after every panel, scrape off any "clotting" on the pad - its not necessary to fully clean the pad during a detail, but keeping it regularly brushed down ensures the pad doesn't become clotted with product which would reduce its effectiveness. After a detail, I would wash your pads with dishsoap and rinse very thoroughly and then let them air dry after squeezing the water.



Fifth question:

The polish will quickly become a residue, you want to keep working this until the residue goes clear. Now assuming you have the Menzerna Power Gloss and Intensive Polish in white rectangular bottles, these polishes can actually dry quite quickly and in some cases before they have fully broken down... If the residue goes clear quickly, stop the machine and spray a little qd spray onto your pad, and then go over the area again - the residue will go white again and you will have more work time to break down the polish.



An aside for using Menzerna Power Gloss and Intensive Polish (PO91L) that you have in white rectangular bottles - these products respond well to a "slow-cutting" method by PC. The abrasives i nthese are aluminium oxide and are quite brittle, so too much pressure at the start shatters the abrasives before they have had a chance to break down naturally by cutting... To get round this, I apply as follows: spread polish at speed 3 with no pressure and then make three passes at speed 5 with no pressure; stop machine, spritz pad and then make three more passes at speed 5 with no pressure; stop the machine, spritz pad and make three more passes at speed 5 with no pressure; stop the machine, spritz pad and then make three or four passes at speed 6 with medium pressure. This allows the abrasives to break down by cutting and I have had better defect removal results using this technique, so if you are having difficuulties using the "standard" methods, this is well worth a try.



Hope that helps,



KG
 
OK great.



One thing I'm concerned about.



It sounds like you're suggesting to put hard pressure on the PC. Wouldn't that burn a hole in the paint if I do the suggested method of measuring my pressure? and wouldn't that burn a whole in my paint anyways from that amount of pressure?
 
The PC is a actually a very gentle tool which is unlikely to burn a hole in your paint unless you pushed down hard on the same spot for hours... Rotary polishers can do serious damage to paint if you push down hard and hold them in the same place because the pad simply spins, and generate a lot of heat which can burn paint. A PC, the pad oscillates and generates no where near the same amount of heat.



When I do PC demonstrations for folks local to me in Scotland, I take the PC at speed 4 and push it into the palm of my hand and it doesn't hurt, to show how gentle the tool is.



What you can do to get a feel for the amount of pressure needed, is with bathroom scales, push down until you have 10 - 15lbs of pressure - thats about what you need for defect correction on paintwork. Its not actually a very hard pressure - if you put too much pressure on the PC, the pad will stop spinning and the machine wont work effectively. This is something that you will get a feel for as you start using the PC - so long as you remember that you are very unlikely to do damage to your car's paintwork with one owing to the nature of the tool and just take a little time to get a feel for it, you will be fine. :)
 
Just a few more questions :)



First Question: Say you pick the "worst" area on your car. But then you come across some areas that the "combo" is unable to make a difference. What do you do then? do you go up a level for THAT area alone? or do you up a level and do the whole car again?



Second Question: After I smear the polish onto the surface, use speed 1 to spread it around, the polish splatters all over the car and me :sadwavey: and now there are tiny dots of polish all over the car bonnet and under the headlights. I tried to remove as much as I could but some are not removing. So how can I further avoid splatter? and how do I remove the splattered polish after it's dried out? Quick detail maybe?



Third Question: Say I went over a "test area" with the combo yellow/IP, and say that it is the best combo. And if I go over that test area again with the same combo, is there any harm in that?



Fourth Question: I know you told me to just use a toothbrush to remove the remaining polish left on the pad as I move from panel to panel. However, what do I do if I want to use the same pad yet different polish? How do I clean my pad then?



Thanks so much for bearing my newbiness. I know I'm asking a lot but I just want to be completely sure and confident of what I'm doing. And think of all case scenarios.



Thank you :)
 
No probs mate, I was a newbie as well when i first started out and was grateful for all the help I received. :up



First question:

If there are areas of severe scratches on the car that your combo isn't working on then I would step up to something more aggressive on that area alone - as a kind of spot repair if you like. If the combi is working great on the rest of the car then just stick with it, and use a more aggressive compound on areas of severe scratches. On a car I got in recently, I was using a mild abrasive for the majority of the car bar two panels that were resprayed and had terrible orange peel where i was kocking back the orange peel with an aggressive compound. Just an example.



Second question:

To remove the splatter, spray with a little QD spray onto the marks and then gently wipe them away... It sounds if you are getting splatter at speed one that you may have too much product on the pad. I would put an X of product on the pad when first using the pad, and just a line of polish thereafter, and always ensure that the pad is flat on the paintwork when the amchine is turned on otherwise you risk splattering the polish.



Third question:

With the PC, you dont really remove all that much paint when polishing, so going over the same area twice is unlikely to do any harm. I often overlap the areas that I do when polishing by a small amount to ensure I cover the whole vehicle evenly and dont leave areas that are unpolished.



Fourth question:

If you want to use a different product on the same pad then you will have to thoroughly clean the pad: dishsoap to wash and thoroughly remove all of the previous polish, and rinse very thoroughly and dry. A quick way of drying the pad is to fit it onto the machine with the majority of the water squeezed out, lower into a bucket so the pad is inside a bucket and turn the machine on to speed 4/5. This will "spin dry" the pad nicely, and quickly ready for use. :)



Cheers,



KG
 
So you're saying when first using the pad, just put an X of the polish. AND then after its first use put just a line?
 
bonoz said:
So you're saying when first using the pad, just put an X of the polish. AND then after its first use put just a line?
Click to expand...



Yep - on a 6" pad, I put an X of polish with the lines of the X about 4 - 5" long. Then just one 4 - 5" long line of polish from there on. :)
 
"Second Question: After I smear the polish onto the surface, use speed 1 to spread it around, the polish splatters all over the car and me and now there are tiny dots of polish all over the car bonnet and under the headlights. I tried to remove as much as I could but some are not removing. So how can I further avoid splatter? and how do I remove the splattered polish after it's dried out? Quick detail maybe?"



What I do is I put some product on my pad WITH OUT turning it on smear it in a small section to A: distribuate the product on the pad as even as I can B: prevent a mess of the splater type. then I put it on 1 or 2 and go over JUST the section Im working to get the product spread out evenly, then I buff away...
 
Devilsown said:
"Second Question: After I smear the polish onto the surface, use speed 1 to spread it around, the polish splatters all over the car and me and now there are tiny dots of polish all over the car bonnet and under the headlights. I tried to remove as much as I could but some are not removing. So how can I further avoid splatter? and how do I remove the splattered polish after it's dried out? Quick detail maybe?"



What I do is I put some product on my pad WITH OUT turning it on smear it in a small section to A: distribuate the product on the pad as even as I can B: prevent a mess of the splater type. then I put it on 1 or 2 and go over JUST the section Im working to get the product spread out evenly, then I buff away...
Click to expand...





Yeah that's what I do as well. I think MAYBE I'm using too much polish. I'm putting 3 circles on the pad. I think maybe that's too much. I'll try the X.



Then I will simply smear it with the machine off, and then use speed 1 to just evenly spread the product.
 
Have you seen this helpful chart on the different color of pads?

(see Newbie needs a pad line recommendation).
 
Guys, right now I'm on my hood.



And the scratches won't go with orange/IP. And it's not like they are any deep scratches. Just typical swirl marks.



Am I not pressing hard enough? not using enough polish? I'm trying the "X".
 
BTW, I ever tried yellowpad/IP... and same story.



Now the next step would be powergloss... but I don't think the scratches are that deep. They are typical swirl marks really. And weird thing is that when I tried it last night with white/fpII it did take off some scratches... but not all so I kept moving up the level.
 
The problem I feel might be that when I spread the polish over the area... it does not look white... it feels as though I'm not using enough polish. When I smear the polish it runs out of it immediately and doesn't look evenly spread.
 
What size area are you working? I would go for an area of about 18" square max. With the PO91L version of Intensive Polish (the one in the white rectangular bottles), the polish can dry out very quickly. If your spritz the pad with a little quick detailer this should help solve that problem and increase your work time by PC.



I am going to copy and paste a thread I wrote some time ago regarding the use of the PO91L and S34A products from Menzerna:



Slow-Cut Method for "Standard" Version Menzerna Polishes

In this guide, I outline the slow-cut technique that I used on a recent detail to remove severe swirls from an Audi using the Porter Cable 7424. My technique is all based on the information L200 Steve has presented both on this forum and discussion I've had with him at the Wishaw detailing day a wee while back, possibly varying slightly from Steve's technique as we all have our own individual methods we're happy with but the idea is the same.



I present my methods which are also based on the use of the Menzerna polishes - Intensive Polish and Power Gloss Compound, which use milled aluminium as the abbrassive. This is fragile, and breaks down under applied pressure. So, by applying no pressure to the PC head you allow the abbrassives to break down naturally during the cutting process rather than shattering them with weight so yo get better cutting performance from the polish.



For this technique you will need:



> PC7424 DA Polisher (or equiv)

> 4/6" Cutting Pads

> Water or QD spray

> Plenty of patience!



Method



1.

Apply a spray of water to the pad to wet it, and then apply some polish (PGC or IP depending on swirl severity) to the pad.



2.

Work on a very small area at a time - I would go for roughly 1' square, nothing more. Dab the machine around this area to apply the polish.



3.

Turn the PC on at speed 3. Support the weight of the machine - I tend to hold it with the handly on for this method, one hand underneth the back of the PC to hold it up and the other on the handle to guide direction without applying weight to the machine. Any hold is good though, so long as there is no weight over the head of the PC - try to support the machine's weight. Move the PC slowly across the area in overlapping strokes, at a speed of around 1/2" per second - very slowly. You should get around five, six passes before the polish starts to go clear and look like its drying and ready to buff off...



4.

Rather than buff off the residue, I spray the pad with some more water and repeat the above step. Speed 3, no weight, very slow passes. The polish hazes up again and you have more work time... Make more slow passes until the polish begins to go clear again.



5.

After two hits at speed 3, I then spray the pad with water and move onto speed 5, again no weight and no pressure and make slow passes by moving the PC at about 1/2" per second.



6.

Finally, spray the pad with water again, and move to speed 6 and this time apply pressure to the PC for a final single pass over the area at about 1" per second. The polish will likely be pretty clear after this stage, so buff off the residue. If you examine the pad, I found that it actually looked quite clean after this, very little white polish left there.



7.

If you've used PGC, you will induce micromarring with this method, but this can be easily removed using IP and either the fast or slow-cut technqiues.





* I am generally quite generous with the amount of product applied here, using a little more than I woud normally for the fast-cut method but being sure to work the polish in with the above method.



** This is my own personal mehtod for this technique which I find suits me well, it differs in a few ways from Steve's method I belive but the ideas are all the same. You may well feel more comfortable making more passes at speed 3, and the final pass at speed 5 for example - a little bit or trial of the method and you will find something that suits you perfectly. I have presented my method as a general guide of the method rather than hard and fast technique.



If you have hard paint (eg VAG, BMW) then this method is key to getting the best out of Menzerna polishes for example, to get the best cutting results.



------



The abive technique is one that I use to get the best from the Intensive Polish and Power Gloss products, working on small areas using a slow-cutting method to get the best from the abrasives. I would recommend trying out a method similar to the above and see if that helps. :)
 
First off, is the panel you are working on hot? If its too hot, then the polish will dry very quickly...



Also, what colour of vehicle are you detailing - a white residue is hard to see on lighter colours and can look clear.



One other thing that springs to mind here - this is a problem I encountered with Megs #83 by rotary some time ago and was cakiingof the polish and it didn't seem to "stick" to panels ready to use... A little bit of narrowing down revealed that existing wax protection on the panel was causing the polishing issues, and was resolved by using a chemical cleanser like meguiars deep crystal paint cleaner first to remove any existing wax protection. This may be worth a go.
 
Well.



The car is a black so there shouldn't be any reason why I can't see it.



And about the wax. I bought the car 1.5 years ago, by now I think the wax is probably worn off. Besides I washed the car, and clayed it. Doesn't claying unwax the car?
 
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