imported_king nothing
New member
Would I be able to get good results using a different carnuba wax with the wet diamond. I already have poorboys nattys blue and cant afford to drop the money on the midnight sun right now
using another wax with wet diamond
- Thread starter imported_king nothing
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Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
The only problem you might encounter with using another wax over Blackfire Wet Diamond is that the surface is so 'slick' that it the wax may not fully take to the sealant. This doesn't mean that the wax won't apply, but you may not get the full durability of the wax. Wet Diamond is water based, but once it fully cures, it is pretty resilient to the solvents in other waxes, so applying Natty's Blue over it will not harm or reduce the sealant.
Keep in mind that Midnight Sun was designed with polymers to help it bite or bond into sealants. It was really quite a project, since Wet Diamond is so slick. The benefit is that we have not found any sealant yet that Blackfire doesn't bond well over, but then again, I have never felt a sealant quite as slick.
Perhaps the best part of Wet Diamond is that it really does have a carnauba like shine, very deep and rich. You might find that topping it with Natty's might not do much for the appearance anyways as it took a coincided effort for to get Midnight Sun so good to show the increase.
Let the Wet Diamond cure, then apply your Natty's Blue over it. Then report back and take plenty of pictures!!!
Todd
imported_User Name
New member
Todd,
I was SOOOOO pleased with my Wet Diamond I would have a VERY hard time topping it. Not saying the fire over ice won't be that much better (since I haven't tried it), but the product is so good on it's own I feel like topping it can't really help.
To the OP, I've used Natty's and IMHO you are not going to improve a thing by topping Wet Diamond with Natty's. My *guess* would be that you'll probably lose some slickness only.
If I were you, I'd go with two coats of Wet Diamond and call it a day.
I was SOOOOO pleased with my Wet Diamond I would have a VERY hard time topping it. Not saying the fire over ice won't be that much better (since I haven't tried it), but the product is so good on it's own I feel like topping it can't really help.
To the OP, I've used Natty's and IMHO you are not going to improve a thing by topping Wet Diamond with Natty's. My *guess* would be that you'll probably lose some slickness only.
If I were you, I'd go with two coats of Wet Diamond and call it a day.
BIOLINK
Icon Detailing
UN is on to something. Blackfire is very slick. I have two coats on my car right now and I chickened out on Monday when I had time to apply Midnight Sun. I like the depth and warmth of nuba waxes, so I am bound to apply a coat next chance I get. I do know that I am not going with any other wax than Blackfire. They are meant to go together. :thumbup::thumbup:
king nothing,
I've got Blackfire coming out of my ears, and a tub with a few applications left. If you want to try Midnight Sun over Wet diamond, PM me your address and I will send it to you. Don't spoil the Wet Diamond with another wax.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
imported_king nothing
New member
WOW, what a generous offer. Ill drop you a PM.
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
You know we carry Blackfire Wet Diamond, All finish Paint Protection in a 64oz container......:thumbup:
imported_Luster
New member
The reason I like Wet Diamond, and sealants in general, is that you don't have to top them with anything. (Never been a carnuba fan).
Wet Diamond times 2 layers! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Wet Diamond times 2 layers! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
BIOLINK
Icon Detailing
I have fun applying the wax. It does add warmth and depth too. But you are right about the two coats, it rocks all by itself. I've been staring at my car for a week after I promised a follow up wax. It looks darn good right now. I am going to wax it, tomorrow.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
I have fun applying the wax. It does add warmth and depth too. But you are right about the two coats, it rocks all by itself. I've been staring at my car for a week after I promised a follow up wax. It looks darn good right now. I am going to wax it, tomorrow.
And that is the duality, the benefit, and crux of the situation.
The duality is that Blackfire Midnight Sun is a class leading Carnauba Wax. I am amazed that those, usually with a strong bias, try to down play it's performance, then in the same breath state that wax is a matter of opinion. It was formulated by a man that has solely created other class leading waxes, and he designed this one to be the best. It is a very expensive, as much as likely an other formula out there, formula to pour and the results are outstanding, IMO.
The dual part of the duality of course it that Wet Diamond Sealant is a top shelf sealant, as good in most regards as any other sealants out there. With the addition of Polycharger, which must be added to the label per Four Star(who manufacturers the Polycharger catalyzer), it really has great durability. It gives a bright, yet warm carnauba like glow to the paint, and does a very good job at releasing dirt and staying very slick.
So you have two top notch products that are great performing products in their own right and are amazing when used individually.
The benefit, of course, is too my knowledge it is the only liquid sealant/paste wax combination that was designed to be used as a system. To my knowledge, Terry Freiburg was the first person to really push the use of a carnauba paste over a sealant. At the time, way back when, he used to recommend his wax at the time OR P21s be used over the Klasse Twins, as these products seemed to work together. You could apply the wax with out fear of the solvents removing or weakening the sealant underneath. Of course he wasn't the first one to layer a wax over a sealant, heck I used put Mother's Carnauba over Nu-Finish, but he did take a more scientific approach to it.
With Blackfire, the problem was making a wax 'stick' to the sealant. Wet Diamond is so slick that most waxes will not realize their fullest potential as they will never fully adhere. Midnight Sun was designed to adhere as well to slick, sealed paint, as it it will adhere to clean paint. It is still one of the most, if not the most technologically advanced waxes available. It took several years before other wax sellers started offering their version of polymer charged paste waxes and acted like they discovered some magical break through.
So you have two top-shelf products that are great when used separately, and completely amazing when used in combination.
So what's the crux? When something is marketed as a system, people may not realize how good each product is by itself. It gets into the whole sale approach where everything is the best, and even better if you stand on one leg, bark twice, and apply it during a harvest moon....
If you are looking for a top shelf wax that is one of the most expensive to produce, and one of the most advanced in the world, that Blackfire Midnight Sun Batch 24 is a great choice. By the same token, if you are looking for extreme durability, a high gloss that still retains that carnauba warm, crazy slickness, and ridiculous ease of use, then Blackfire Sealant is all you need.
I did my best to describe the full benefits in my answers to akimel on this thread...
Fire and Ice: Is it really different?
Well looks are always subjective, but I wouldn't say it is that much wetter, deeper, richer, but I do notice a difference in the gloss. While these products work together, and in my experience, work better together then any wax and sealant combo in use, you are still topping a sealant with a carnauba, so most of the look is going to be carnauba based. The Midnight Sun B24 will be going on a better looking surface (courtesy of Wet Diamond). Remember that a lot of work went into designing each product to be best in class by itself, and if you know what other waxes Terry soley developed, then you know why we feel this way!
Of course I have, but I am also crazy. Again I notice a difference because you applying the carnauba over a better looking surface, same as applying it over a waxed surface. Wet Diamond, by itself, is a pretty amazing sealant, in terms of ease of use, looks, and durability. I really feel, in my experience, that it creates a unique, crystal like (wet diamond even?) appearance that has great depth for a sealant and a very high gloss.
Midnight Sun is designed with a specific German Super Polymer and agents to allow it bond over most other sealants on the market. In my testing, I have yet to find any wax that works as well as Midnight Sun B24 over a variety of sealants. It will really bond in over the slickest surfaces.
With most wax over sealant combos, you don't get a full synergistic effect. A sealant that lasts 3 months, topped with a wax that lasts for 1 month, rarely lasts for 4 months. 3+1 is usually much less then 4. In fact in most cases, because of chemical and solvent incompatibility, the application of the wax my weaken the sealant, effecting total durability. Even worse, most of the wax will probably not bond over the sealant, so you get a slight (if any) improvement in looks that lasts a very short time, and the total durability is negatively effected.
The Blackfire products are designed to work together, so you will get the full benefits of the wax, and it will provide a sacrificial barrier over the sealant with out negatively effecting the durability.
imported_king nothing
New member
Well, thanks to biolink's generosity, I have some midnight sun to try out. Ive also got some wet diamond and some meguiars 205 on the way along with a gallon of optimum no rinse (My wife is gonna KILL me LOL. Maybe I should have had it sent to work). So here in the next few weeks I should be able to do a full exterior on my 03 cobra. 105 spot polish, 205 on the whole car, wet diamond, and a couple coats of midnight sun. I cant wait to see it as its a great color anyway and it should really shine with these products
imported_broker99
New member
I just did a gray Altima this weekend with Natty Blue over Wet Diamond and it looks awesome. I will have post some pics shortly. I love Natty Blue, I have had great results with it and the price is right.
imported_Termigator
New member
AG HD has been stuck in my mind since I found out Walmart carried it. What's your assessment of it?
After reading the many post on DW and a few other sites and the products I?ve bought I?m going with Polish, Glaze and wax for summer and polish and two coats of wet diamond for the winter.
In truth if I had not spent ?50 on two wax?s and Megs no7 I?d be happy with polish and two coats of Wet Diamond but I?ll have a play with the glaze and wax some of my friends in Scotland swear by. Have to emit I did have two coats of Pete 53 on the Wet D that was probably not a good idea reading things on here.
So I?ll drag out the Sonus polish, Megs no 7 and megs paste wax no 16 next week for the Mini. And polish later on the year and do two coats of wet diamond for the winter.
Great advice, Wish I had got the Midnight sun , when my stuff all runs out I Think I?ll go with polish and the Wet Diamond Midnight sun a few years down the line. It will take me years to use the Glaze
Cheers
Stewart.
In truth if I had not spent ?50 on two wax?s and Megs no7 I?d be happy with polish and two coats of Wet Diamond but I?ll have a play with the glaze and wax some of my friends in Scotland swear by. Have to emit I did have two coats of Pete 53 on the Wet D that was probably not a good idea reading things on here.
So I?ll drag out the Sonus polish, Megs no 7 and megs paste wax no 16 next week for the Mini. And polish later on the year and do two coats of wet diamond for the winter.
Great advice, Wish I had got the Midnight sun , when my stuff all runs out I Think I?ll go with polish and the Wet Diamond Midnight sun a few years down the line. It will take me years to use the Glaze
Cheers
Stewart.
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Welcome to TID Stewart, great to see more folks from the UK/Scotland area here.....Cheers Angelo
I like Autoglym a lot
I've also tried Pinnacle Signature Series II
Here's a comparison of the two
Jars
Pinnacle comes in an 8 ounce jar with a label
Autoglym comes in a 150 gram (5.29 ounces) silk screened jar
The Pinnacle label still looks new
The silk screening on the Autoglym jar has already started to wear off
Color
Autoglym is a creamy white
The Pinnacle is a creamy orange-yellow
Consistency
Their both have about the same amount of hardness in the jars
Smell
The Autoglym has a chemical smell. Reminds me of Mother's California Gold Past wax. Doesn't smell great doesn't smell nasty...
Pinnacle has a candy-pineapple smell
Ease of use - Application
I like Pinnacle way more in this regard. When you apply it the wax just melts like butter and it is very easy to keep spreading it until you get as thin a layer as you want. You buff it off almost immediately and it wipes off very easily.
Here's where Autoglym got on my nerves. It doesn't melt on the car's surface like Pinnacle. You can't keep going over areas with a lot of product to spread it over to other areas. This stuff goes on thick and pasty. I tried the applicator that came with the wax deemed it execrable (hard stiff and plasticy around the edges) and threw it in the trash. Switched to a microfiber applicator and it was still hard to spread around even after I misted the applicator with a QD spray (Blackfire Deep Gloss Spray) I even tried completely soaking the applicator and wringing it out and it didn't make the least bit of difference.
Ease of use - Removal
As I said above Pinnacle is wipe on-wipe off. Wipe it on to an area wait maybe 1 or 2 minutes and wipe it off. And it comes off very easily.
Autoglym may not be easy to apply thinly but is sure is easy to remove. Wipe on let it dry for about 30 minutes and wipe it off. Autoglym wiped off very easily even though it went on a lot thicker than I would have liked
Appearance after removal
Autoglym gave a harder more reflective shine with good clarity. Like a good sealant but with a little bit carnuba glow too. If you really love the refective look slap this stuff over something like Klasse and it'd be like looking into a mirror
Pinnacle gave more of a carnuba glow in my opinion. Still a very beautiful look just different from the Autoglym. I'd bet Pinnacle would look great over a very reflective & shiny sealant like Klasse AIO/Sealant Glaze or Liquid Glass. The sealant would give the paint a very reflective lokk while the Pinnacle would add a really nice glow/wet look.
I like Autoglym better here
Metallic flake pop
Sorry I can't really say much about that one. My car is pyrite mica (Kind of a medium brown-grey-gold kinda color) and it doesn't seem to have very much flake - mica or metallic
Value
Pinnacle Signature Series without a doubt. For one thing it comes in a larger jar buy almost 3 ounces and secondly it's a lot easier to get a very small amount on the applicator. It hardly even looks like I've used to Pinnacle at all but there's nearly a 1 inch crater in the center of the Autoglym wax. But of course there's less of it to begin with...
Recommendations
I know you'll all think I'm nuts but I recommend using them both - Pinnacle over Autoglym. Especially if you don't use sealants. I think they compliment each other very well like using Blackfire AFPP and Blackfire Midnight Sun.
If you're only willing/able to get one I say go with Autoglym. I like the end results better and from what I've bee reading on other forums it also has pretty good longevity.