UPP questions
- Thread starter NetBoy
- Start date
MattZ28
New member
UPP beads like crazy. I've never left it on long enough since I'm always trying new combos, but most people say 4-5 months durability. It is my favorite sealant.....UNBELIEVABLY slick.
imported_memnuts
New member
Will UPP give you the durability and continual just waxed look of Zaino. No
With that stated, if I had to use a second tier sealant protectant UPP would be one of my choices. UPP really looks excellent when first applied.
Zaino Z2 - $12.95 (8 oz) plus shipping
UPP $14.95 (16 oz) plus shipping
Confused on the saving point. Zaino has better durability that would negate any initial cost saving.
If you want a sample of UPP maybe we can work a trade. PM me. :wavey
With that stated, if I had to use a second tier sealant protectant UPP would be one of my choices. UPP really looks excellent when first applied.
Zaino Z2 - $12.95 (8 oz) plus shipping
UPP $14.95 (16 oz) plus shipping
Confused on the saving point. Zaino has better durability that would negate any initial cost saving.
If you want a sample of UPP maybe we can work a trade. PM me. :wavey
imported_memnuts
New member
stevet said:
layerable: Klasse
non-layerable: Meg #20 (a real sleeper that's locally available).
When you add in the cost of ZFX and Z6, Zaino starts getting expensive. I know those two aren't necessary, but they're extremely useful going along with Z2 or Z5.
I wouldn't put Zaino as a first-tier sealant. Yes, it lasts a long time...but I used it for a year, and the stale looks (along with amplification of minor defects, since I have a daily driven black car,) just didn't do it for me. As of now, it's only used on white and metallic silver cars that don't show much depth. I much prefer Blackfire or FMJ for a sealant, and I have a feeling I'd like UPP more, too.
I wouldn't put Zaino as a first-tier sealant. Yes, it lasts a long time...but I used it for a year, and the stale looks (along with amplification of minor defects, since I have a daily driven black car,) just didn't do it for me. As of now, it's only used on white and metallic silver cars that don't show much depth. I much prefer Blackfire or FMJ for a sealant, and I have a feeling I'd like UPP more, too.
imported_memnuts
New member
I have 3 black vehicles (2 red and a silver also) but only one is a black vehicle daily driver. I understand your peril. The marring you see is not a quality of the sealant (Zaino) but a result of your post application care (washing, QD'ing, normal environmental assaults). No protectant can ward off these problems. A very good feature of products like UPP, carnaubas, BF, WG, etc is their ability to "mask" minor defects with their non-protective components. Great for optically created depth and hiding minor surface imperfections (make-up) between preps. I prefer to eliminate surface problems as they occur, try my best not to create any during washing, never QD anything but a clean surface (just washed or garaged since last wash) and create my depth via meticulous periodic polishing.
I top neither Zaino nor Klasse because of the depth created during prep.
I have done some simple test in my lab (hospital) for different insoluble contents of most of these sealants. I centrifuged the sealants and noted the solvent contents of them. UPP, BF and WG were surprisingly quite similar in volume. Both in resin button at bottom of tube and percentage of solvent. EX and NXT both had larger resin button and less percentage of solvent per total volume tested. The most notable observation was the viscosity and tactile feel of the solvent layer. The UPP, WG, BF, etc were much more oily in texture where the Klasse and Zaino were a lot less viscous (more watery than oily).
This is how I produced my tier system which also includes application effort and buffing besides the observable characteristics (appearance) when using these products. I desire products with less oily solvents and ingredients because of these products have a decrease longevity of that initial "POP" that one receives immediately after waxing/sealing. As the oils evaporate the "POP" decreases. Just personal preference on my part.
I top neither Zaino nor Klasse because of the depth created during prep.
I have done some simple test in my lab (hospital) for different insoluble contents of most of these sealants. I centrifuged the sealants and noted the solvent contents of them. UPP, BF and WG were surprisingly quite similar in volume. Both in resin button at bottom of tube and percentage of solvent. EX and NXT both had larger resin button and less percentage of solvent per total volume tested. The most notable observation was the viscosity and tactile feel of the solvent layer. The UPP, WG, BF, etc were much more oily in texture where the Klasse and Zaino were a lot less viscous (more watery than oily).
This is how I produced my tier system which also includes application effort and buffing besides the observable characteristics (appearance) when using these products. I desire products with less oily solvents and ingredients because of these products have a decrease longevity of that initial "POP" that one receives immediately after waxing/sealing. As the oils evaporate the "POP" decreases. Just personal preference on my part.
imported_Intermezzo
New member
Very good post Edwin!.. though I'm not surprised one bit at the similarities between Blackfire, UPP & WG.
imported_memnuts
New member
Intermezzo said:
Tony,
Thanks. :bow
I was trying to be a little tongue in cheek with the "surprise" part but did not want to post
If anyone has access to a centrifuge please try this little analysis. Warning: The NXT and EX-P must spin for at least 15 minutes (@3400 rpm) to get any separation. PITA.
Thanks for the replies.
Z2 with ZFX($20), Z6 is expensive. Never used Z2 by itself.
I'm unhappy with 3 coats of ZFX-Z2 on my silver BMW. Thought I'd try something else. Never heard of UPP until I found this board.
$15 a bottle is worth a try. Need a bottle with 4 cars.
Has anyone tried topping Z2 with UPP ?
Z2 with ZFX($20), Z6 is expensive. Never used Z2 by itself.
I'm unhappy with 3 coats of ZFX-Z2 on my silver BMW. Thought I'd try something else. Never heard of UPP until I found this board.
$15 a bottle is worth a try. Need a bottle with 4 cars.
Has anyone tried topping Z2 with UPP ?
2wheelsx2
New member
Fantastic post Edwin, and excellent findings. I am amazed that after 5 years on this board, I still see new stuff that people uncover.
Hmmmm...maybe it's time to try NXT.
Hmmmm...maybe it's time to try NXT.
No matter what you want to say about my washing techniques, not one daily driven black car on this planet is completely defect-free, especially when subjected to rain, sand, dirt, snow, and whatever else is on the roads.
Zaino doesn't show as much depth as the other mentioned sealants, and it does amplify these minor defects. Is this a bad thing? Yes, it sure is. Does Zaino also have great things about it? Yes, it sure does.
But is it "alone" on the first-tier market shelf with another product (Klasse SG) that's similar in looks, but is a whole lot more fussy in application and removal? In my opinion, no...not even close. You try and make it seem like I prefer Blackfire and FMJ because they hide what my "amateur" detailing techniques do to the paint. I don't introduce a ton of marring on my car, and I've yet to meet one other person that's actually noticed the flaws that bother me on a daily basis. I am not going to polish out these minor flaws all the time that only I notice for the sake of using a sealant that I don't even LIKE the looks of.
So, I use a cheaper and better-looking sealant (read: my opinion) that's also easier to use, Blackfire. I don't use it because it hides defects, because I don't personally believe it does to an extent that's noticeable. It (and the many other products I use along with it) just doesn't amplify them nearly as much as Zaino.
You don't like oily products. Good for you. I do. Don't ever make the assumption that I prefer them because I have a bad technique that introduces defects.
Zaino doesn't show as much depth as the other mentioned sealants, and it does amplify these minor defects. Is this a bad thing? Yes, it sure is. Does Zaino also have great things about it? Yes, it sure does.
But is it "alone" on the first-tier market shelf with another product (Klasse SG) that's similar in looks, but is a whole lot more fussy in application and removal? In my opinion, no...not even close. You try and make it seem like I prefer Blackfire and FMJ because they hide what my "amateur" detailing techniques do to the paint. I don't introduce a ton of marring on my car, and I've yet to meet one other person that's actually noticed the flaws that bother me on a daily basis. I am not going to polish out these minor flaws all the time that only I notice for the sake of using a sealant that I don't even LIKE the looks of.
So, I use a cheaper and better-looking sealant (read: my opinion) that's also easier to use, Blackfire. I don't use it because it hides defects, because I don't personally believe it does to an extent that's noticeable. It (and the many other products I use along with it) just doesn't amplify them nearly as much as Zaino.
You don't like oily products. Good for you. I do. Don't ever make the assumption that I prefer them because I have a bad technique that introduces defects.
imported_memnuts
New member
What sticking out your ARSE!!! Tailwind, now I see the meaning behind (excuse the pun) you name.
No one mention you. All general statements, my personal experimentation with products and daily problems that I and all that detail run into. Rain and snow will only cause water spots if left alone. Not surface swirls. Sand and dirt only create problem if not handled properly. Your own admission that this was a problem only leads to the most obvious sources of your surface defects. Because "I" perfer to eliminate flaws rather than tolerate, not ignore flaws because others do not see (how do you know that?), wash with extreme care and emphasis prep makes me a critic of you? :nixweiss
If you do not like the "look" of a product do not try to justify this with false attributes like inability to hide marring to justify your opinion. Zaino in this case never possessed this skill for serious surface imperfection. Also if you do not have the love of this hobby/vocation to spend the time to maintain a flawless finish, again do not blame the product. That is why there are different product types, techniques used and situational needs.
At not point in my post did I state one or another product had a better appearance. This is too objective and prep related subject to even discuss. I even offer the originator of this post a sample of UPP.
I made no mention of FMJ because I have yet to try it. I am sure it is a good product because I love my Menzerna prep products (IP and FP).
I do not even desire to go into your "depth" statement about Zaino. (see Sig)
Hint: lacking in prep skills? :nixweiss
Oils are not bad. I just do not like them in my sealants for that stated reasons.
So before you jump into something....let the garage door up and allow in some fresh air. The brain normally functions alot more efficiently that way.
The bravado of youth. Have a great day.
No one mention you. All general statements, my personal experimentation with products and daily problems that I and all that detail run into. Rain and snow will only cause water spots if left alone. Not surface swirls. Sand and dirt only create problem if not handled properly. Your own admission that this was a problem only leads to the most obvious sources of your surface defects. Because "I" perfer to eliminate flaws rather than tolerate, not ignore flaws because others do not see (how do you know that?), wash with extreme care and emphasis prep makes me a critic of you? :nixweiss
If you do not like the "look" of a product do not try to justify this with false attributes like inability to hide marring to justify your opinion. Zaino in this case never possessed this skill for serious surface imperfection. Also if you do not have the love of this hobby/vocation to spend the time to maintain a flawless finish, again do not blame the product. That is why there are different product types, techniques used and situational needs.
At not point in my post did I state one or another product had a better appearance. This is too objective and prep related subject to even discuss. I even offer the originator of this post a sample of UPP.
I made no mention of FMJ because I have yet to try it. I am sure it is a good product because I love my Menzerna prep products (IP and FP).
I do not even desire to go into your "depth" statement about Zaino. (see Sig)
Hint: lacking in prep skills? :nixweiss
Oils are not bad. I just do not like them in my sealants for that stated reasons.
So before you jump into something....let the garage door up and allow in some fresh air. The brain normally functions alot more efficiently that way.
The bravado of youth. Have a great day.
For the sake of the topic, I'm not going to insult you even though you wholeheartedly deserve it.
Not only did you imply I use a haphazard washing technique, in that last post you also implied bad prep skills and amateurish thinking (in reference to oil-based products and both Zaino.)
Get off the high horse, and stop writing unnecessarily long drawn out posts full of nothing.
My point is that not one daily driven flat black car is completely defect free. Period. Vast majority of the people on here would agree with that. I used Zaino for a year (over yes, a properly prepped surface with Menzerna polishes and both bare and with AIO,) and although it was super-reflective, it did highlight the small defects my car has more than any other product I've used, it did lack depth, and it did look plasticky. Some other sealants like Blackfire and FMJ are much easier to use, produce a deeper and richer look, and don't amplify defects like Zaino does, and that's why I prefer them.
As far as the polishing goes, I do have the time, will, skill, and tools to do the work. However, I do not enjoy doing it all the time, for many reasons. One, once again, you cannot completely avoid small minor defects on a flat black daily driver. Two, I don't want to remove a lot of clear as I plan on keeping the car a long time. Three, I don't care for using products like Zaino that keep one stuck to a religious polishing routine. There's more, but why bother going on? Instead of striving for the impossible, I have learned a bit of mediation and allowed myself to live with the small few flaws instead of worrying over them, especially since they're pretty much only visible to my own eye. I get nothing but compliments on the finish and condition of the car as it is, so you can have your comments and rather uncalled for implications.
Now, instead of taking shots at me, take your fingers away from the keyboard and accept my opinion for what it is, my opinion.
groebuck
New member
is right that excellent paint is 90% prep 10% LSP. That being said - I believe that UPP is a water based sealant so maybe you tested an older version Z?
either way I have several sealant products including the Z2/ZFX on my car now - and it looks great! But it was the SSR2/SSR1/AIO prep and 4 hours of sweat that got most of that look
-
that being said part deux - I would have to say that UPP is better on my dark grey metallic than Z2 as a LSP. Just my 2 cents .
And p.s. you don't need zfx - but z2 is 8 ounces - upp is 16 ounces for about the same price. Both go on really thin so dollar for dollar I would say you get twice as much for the money out of UPP.
You can't go wrong with either one and if you like Z stick with it. 8 or 16 ounces of either should last a loooooong time
either way I have several sealant products including the Z2/ZFX on my car now - and it looks great! But it was the SSR2/SSR1/AIO prep and 4 hours of sweat that got most of that look
- that being said part deux - I would have to say that UPP is better on my dark grey metallic than Z2 as a LSP. Just my 2 cents .
And p.s. you don't need zfx - but z2 is 8 ounces - upp is 16 ounces for about the same price. Both go on really thin so dollar for dollar I would say you get twice as much for the money out of UPP.
You can't go wrong with either one and if you like Z stick with it. 8 or 16 ounces of either should last a loooooong time
SergC
wax on...stress off...
tailwind said:
For the sake of the topic, I'm not going to insult you even though you wholeheartedly deserve it.
Not only did you imply I use a haphazard washing technique, in that last post you also implied bad prep skills and amateurish thinking (in reference to oil-based products and both Zaino.)
Get off the high horse, and stop writing unnecessarily long drawn out posts full of nothing.
My point is that not one daily driven flat black car is completely defect free. Period. Vast majority of the people on here would agree with that. I used Zaino for a year (over yes, a properly prepped surface with Menzerna polishes and both bare and with AIO,) and although it was super-reflective, it did highlight the small defects my car has more than any other product I've used, it did lack depth, and it did look plasticky. Some other sealants like Blackfire and FMJ are much easier to use, produce a deeper and richer look, and don't amplify defects like Zaino does, and that's why I prefer them.
As far as the polishing goes, I do have the time, will, skill, and tools to do the work. However, I do not enjoy doing it all the time, for many reasons. One, once again, you cannot completely avoid small minor defects on a flat black daily driver. Two, I don't want to remove a lot of clear as I plan on keeping the car a long time. Three, I don't care for using products like Zaino that keep one stuck to a religious polishing routine. There's more, but why bother going on? Instead of striving for the impossible, I have learned a bit of mediation and allowed myself to live with the small few flaws instead of worrying over them, especially since they're pretty much only visible to my own eye. I get nothing but compliments on the finish and condition of the car as it is, so you can have your comments and rather uncalled for implications.
Now, instead of taking shots at me, take your fingers away from the keyboard and accept my opinion for what it is, my opinion.
Chill out Son...
21 years old...3 months on the Forum...You do not have much of credibility yet...
Regards,
Serg
imported_memnuts
New member
groebuck,
You are most likely correct. I have the 2nd version from 2002 and a 2003 version (sample from DetailCity). I tested the older version. Same with BF (BFII). These tests were not intended to denigrate any product but to stem my desire on why certain products with similiar backgrounds present different results (appearance, durability, curing/drying time, etc). Why does one post-buffing surface feel slicker than another? Why does one product maintain its initial appearance? Why does another product hide paint flaws better? Intellectual curosity or maybe 50+ y.o boredom? AARP has been trying to recruit me for years.
When I first arrived at Autopia I thought I was doing everything correctly. Washing, drying, Qd'ing and Prepping. I have been revered for years on how good my vehicles looked. Why change, I knew what I was doing. Wrong!!!! After I placed my ego in the trunk, I realized that detailing at this level is "striving" for the impossible and I was working without a complete tool box (knowledge). This was the place I found those hidden gems about detailing. I re-learned the basics (at near 50 at the time was not easy). As I learned more ultra-detailing skills the more my emphasis shifted to prep (polishing and claying) and prevention (washing techique and eliminating QD'ing a slightly dusty/dirty surface). I too do not like spending an inappropriate amount of time working on a finish to achieve an appearance that only myself and fellow Autopian would truly notice.
If I shoot for the stars I may only reach the Moon. Still a lot further along than the guy/gal with his/her head in the sand. I love the challenge of trying to achieve that "perfect" shine. :xyxthumbs
You are most likely correct. I have the 2nd version from 2002 and a 2003 version (sample from DetailCity). I tested the older version. Same with BF (BFII). These tests were not intended to denigrate any product but to stem my desire on why certain products with similiar backgrounds present different results (appearance, durability, curing/drying time, etc). Why does one post-buffing surface feel slicker than another? Why does one product maintain its initial appearance? Why does another product hide paint flaws better? Intellectual curosity or maybe 50+ y.o boredom? AARP has been trying to recruit me for years.
When I first arrived at Autopia I thought I was doing everything correctly. Washing, drying, Qd'ing and Prepping. I have been revered for years on how good my vehicles looked. Why change, I knew what I was doing. Wrong!!!! After I placed my ego in the trunk, I realized that detailing at this level is "striving" for the impossible and I was working without a complete tool box (knowledge).
This was the place I found those hidden gems about detailing. I re-learned the basics (at near 50 at the time was not easy). As I learned more ultra-detailing skills the more my emphasis shifted to prep (polishing and claying) and prevention (washing techique and eliminating QD'ing a slightly dusty/dirty surface). I too do not like spending an inappropriate amount of time working on a finish to achieve an appearance that only myself and fellow Autopian would truly notice.If I shoot for the stars I may only reach the Moon. Still a lot further along than the guy/gal with his/her head in the sand. I love the challenge of trying to achieve that "perfect" shine. :xyxthumbs
groebuck said:
Amen to that! :bow Preparation is everything, the choice of LSP is secondary.
You are losing me here! :lol . Value for money is also a function of now often you need to apply a LSP to maintain the initial look. Zaino does well here and this helps offset the higher initial cost. I do not want to overstate the importance of value for money in choosing a LSP, for me the price of most LSP's is not an issue, not when we are talking about protecting a vehicle that cost me $10's of $1000's
You can't go wrong with either one and if you like Z stick with it. 8 or 16 ounces of either should last a loooooong time
You got that right! :lol
Anyone want to buy some products with 1oz to 2oz's used from each container?