Understanding product applications and use

T

TravisT

New member
I have been looking around on the forums for quite some time now, and one thing I haven't seen is a detailed explination of what each type of product should be used for. There is a bunch of people saying the products they use, and the order they use them in. I am a believer of UNDERSTANDING why I am doing something, instead of just listening to what someone tells me.



I think this would be a good place for newbies (like me) to start understanding WHY we use a certain product at certain times. There seems to be many experts on autopia that could all input information to come up with an "all inclusive" description for each product's use.



Any takers?



If there is already something like this made - no reason to re-invent the wheel, could you provide a link?



TravisT
 
Check the three buttons at the top of the page, and click on "learn!"



Explore the how-to articles, and download the Guide to Detailing e-book; that should give you a good start.



Tort
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Check the three buttons at the top of the page, and click on "learn!"



Explore the how-to articles, and download the Guide to Detailing e-book; that should give you a good start.



Tort
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of us did that! I did, thats what got me started. All it really did was make me more curious.

We all know why we use polishes, and glazes, and sealants. What to expect of each product vs. what is actually attained from using that product is what we refer to as the "learning curve". Understanding each products characteristics, will make you a better detailer and allow for better product chioces in the future. The desire to acquire that perfect finish (subjective), with the least amount of effort (subjective), and the greatest durability (subjective), at the same time not breaking the bank, is what we're all after!
 
TravisT said:
I have been looking around on the forums for quite some time now, and one thing I haven't seen is a detailed explination of what each type of product should be used for. There is a bunch of people saying the products they use, and the order they use them in. I am a believer of UNDERSTANDING why I am doing something, instead of just listening to what someone tells me.



I think this would be a good place for newbies (like me) to start understanding WHY we use a certain product at certain times. There seems to be many experts on autopia that could all input information to come up with an "all inclusive" description for each product's use.



Any takers?



If there is already something like this made - no reason to re-invent the wheel, could you provide a link?



TravisT
Click to expand...





it will take a week or so to decipher the lingo, get the terms, and be fully up to speed. then given more time you'll increase your knowledge of what is going on in the insudtry with what line of products.
 
Thanks for the replies! I had overlooked the buttons at the top, but did stumble across the e-book a couple of days ago. I will have to dig through that and see what I can't learn from it. I guess my problem is there is just an overwhelming amount of products that all seem to be different, but that are all called the same thing (i.e. polish - heavy cut, medium cut, finishing, then there's glaze/polish, etc.). I guess all I can do is keep reading and keep practicing.



Is there a good list of equipment and supplies that is well agreed upon for beginners to experiment with? That is one of my main problems right now. I want to experiment, but don't want to spend big bucks on the high dollar chemicals until I get past the learning curve. Everyone's got their own opinion (and soon I will probably have mine), and the way I see it is that just makes it harder for beginners to decide which products to buy.



Thanks again for the help guys!



TravisT
 
TravisT- Your approach to this stuff is refreshingly logical :xyxthumbs



For ease-of-use I'll recommend the same products that I suggest for people who don't know/care about detailing but want something "better than cleaner wax":



Aggressive Polishes: 1z Extra/Ultra, 3M Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound 05933 (don't let the name scare you ;) ).



Medium Polishes: 1Z Paint Polish, Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze.



Mild Polish: 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze 05937 (ignore the name).



Very Mild Polish: 1z MetallicPolishWax.



The 3M stuff is discontinued and getting hard to find, but it's still available. I can't overstate how strongly I recommend it, especially for beginners. The 1Z stuff is a close second. The good news is that the same stuff is also good enough for an experienced perfectionist.



But as you surmised, everyone has an opinion about this stuff.



For a machine, it's between the PC and the Cyclo.
 
All very good information. I just swung by an paint supply/auto parts store that carries some detailing products. I picked up a Meg's finishing pad for the rotary polisher, as well as a quart of a polish that they recommended. I don't recall the name right off hand, but it was not a name that I have seen on here before. I figure that for practicing, a $12 quart of polish can't be bad at all. I also have some 3M machine glaze coming UPS today. I figure with the finishing pad and the two waffle 3M polishing pads, I am ready to start detailing. I'm sure it won't be long before I need more of an assortment though...



I didn't realize that 3M stuff was discontinued (did I understand you right?). I see it all over the place still.
 
Question regarding 1Z Metallic Polish.



I frequently see 1Z Metallic Polish mentioned as a very mild polish, but, unlike it is above, it's usually not clear if the 1Z Metallic Polish is the preferred one, or the Metallic PolishWax. If you're looking for something very mild to use before AIO, and will follow it up with a sealer (EXP) and wax (Natty's Blue or Collinite for winter), would you use the Metallic Polish, or the Metallic PolishWax? Is the Metallic PolishWax milder than the Metallic Polish? Would the wax in the Metallic PolishWax be a problem with the other products being used?
 
TravisT- Some of the 3M stuff was discontinued (primarily the PI-III line) and others weren't. With all the similar product names they use it's hard to know what's-what, which is why I use the product numbers when I can remember them.



My local autobody/paint supply place still has the PI-III stuff on the shelf so maybe yours still has it too (if so, buy it up ;) ).



Just a FWIW (not intended as a true :nonon ) be careful practicing with a rotary and a "mystery polish". I only use stuff that I really plan to work with as every product has it's idiosyncrasies and IMO it pays to learn something (preferably something easy) and then stick with it. I've yet to meet anybody at an supply place who knew enough to properly recommend *anything* like polishes/pads ;)



FWIW#2, if you have trouble with the 3M waffle pads I'd just stick with smooth pads from somebody like Meguiar's.



Scubamom- Sorry, didn't mean to be incrutable. As far as I know, the Metallic Polish and the MetallicPolishWax are now the same thing. It comes in a rectangular can. The Pro version of MP that I like has supposedly been discontinued and only came in a round, 1-liter can.



The MP/MPW does leave wax behind. This might cause bonding issues with some products, primarily synthetics. I'd probably use a wax over top of it for that reason. A product like AIO will clean this wax off and might expose some hidden marring that the wax concealed.



Note that whenever I use something like AIO, I use the 3M PI-III MG. It doesn't leave anything behind, it doesn't cause any bonding issues, it leaves a finish that'll be perfectly good enough 99.9999% of the time, and it's mild enough that you can use it as often as you like.



I sincerely think that people oughta buy the PI-III stuff while they can. It's that good. I have a lot of it stashed away, enough that I'll probably never run out. FWIW, if I *do* run out, I'll probably go with Menzerna.
 
I've been practicing on a black mustang hood (the stock hood which was replaced by an aftermarket fiberglass one). It has a bad paint job on it, along with many chips, a couple of dents, and many very small "fish-eyes". It wasn't too obvious until I really cleaned it, but they are there. Anyway, I have gotten a pretty good finish out of it. Fish-eyes are still there, as well as a few scratches that I didn't give any special attention to. I used the polish that I picked up on the rotary with a 3M black polishing pad. After that, I moved to the 3M PI-III MG with the same pad (a clean one) and topped it off with the Meg's finishing pad with Meg's carnuba wax.



I have a long way to go, but I didn't seem to do any damage. I guess that is a step in the right direction. One question I had was that I have seen that you should be able to work the product with the polisher in a 2'x2' section for 1-2 minutes (with the correct amount of product). I have seen numerous pictures of the amount you should use on your pad, and I am using a similar amount. I also smear the polish/glaze/wax around before turning the polisher on. I am using the 1000 rpm speed for now. The problem is my area seems to be dry after 30-45 seconds.



Does this sound right? I didn't know if I was using too little product or pressure, or if outside temp would have anything to do with it. It is near (if not over) 100 degrees outside, and when I moved the hood from the direct sunlight into my garage, it was hot enough to burn you. I washed it and dried it, and before I began with the polisher, it was cool to the touch (as cool as it is going to get in 100 degree weather). Any suggestions?



I also sprayed the pad down with a bit of water (about two sprays from a spray bottle) just to help keep things from drying out.
 
The product that's drying out is the PI-III MG, right (I wouldn't use a rotary to apply wax).



It sounds like you might need a little more product; the MG isn't one of those where you have to be super-careful about not using too much but watch you don't get it so loaded up that you get awful slinging. At 1K rpms it oughta finish out nicely but you can bump it up a bit too, 1200 isn't too fast and 1500 can be OK. I wouldn't worry too much if it dries too fast, just accept that as your situation and work smaller areas if necessary.



Try pulling the hood out into the sun after the rotary/MG work before you put wax on it- see if you're getting any holograms.



Not having used those pads or worked in hot conditions like that, I'm probably not equipped to offer the best advice here :o



Oh, I don't use water on my pads, but sometimes I'll spritz the rotary pad with a little Meg's #34 Final Inspection.
 
I love the 3M black waffle pads. I've never used the MG, but I've used at work (and then bought for myself) the Perfect-It 3000 products (EC Compound, SMR, and glaze). I bought it as a kit from NAPA for $100.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/...ospace_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html



And I use the 3M foam waffle pads with the SMR. I use a 3M Superbuff wool pad (double sided) which I find is a nice pad, I like it better than the single sided Perfect-It hook-it pad, even though it's more work to put on my rotary.



Spent like $200 on all this 3M crap.. lol. Works great for me, so I'm sticking to it.





TravisT said:
I have a long way to go, but I didn't seem to do any damage. I guess that is a step in the right direction. One question I had was that I have seen that you should be able to work the product with the polisher in a 2'x2' section for 1-2 minutes (with the correct amount of product). I have seen numerous pictures of the amount you should use on your pad, and I am using a similar amount. I also smear the polish/glaze/wax around before turning the polisher on. I am using the 1000 rpm speed for now. The problem is my area seems to be dry after 30-45 seconds.



Does this sound right? I didn't know if I was using too little product or pressure, or if outside temp would have anything to do with it. It is near (if not over) 100 degrees outside, and when I moved the hood from the direct sunlight into my garage, it was hot enough to burn you. I washed it and dried it, and before I began with the polisher, it was cool to the touch (as cool as it is going to get in 100 degree weather). Any suggestions?



I also sprayed the pad down with a bit of water (about two sprays from a spray bottle) just to help keep things from drying out.
Click to expand...





I think the main thing that might be causing the product to dry up is if you are putting any pressure on the machine. With those pads, they work best with just the weight of the machine pushing down. I hold the handle by the side (when working on a hood or whatever) and don't put any pressure on it. Then I can crank it up to about 1500RPM (usually a bit slower though, to avoid splatter) and let it sit for a little while before the SMR dissapears like it's suppose to. If the pad is worn out, or too much pressure, it will dry up on the paint. If I find it's not staying as wet as it should, I like to also put a tiny bit of water to get more out of the product (a little spit will usually work.. lol).



Sounds like you are getting the hang of it though.. practise makes perfect.
 
Not putting any pressure on the polisher, and the pads are brand new. It is doing the same thing with the MG and the polish, as well as the wax. Maybe just the hot temps around here. I will try bumping the speed up a bit and see if that makes any difference.



I think I may go ahead and take the leap to my GMC Sierra, since I didn't seem to do any damage to this horrible paint job on the hood.
 
Ah, it looks like the Machine Glaze you're using is different from the stuff I use. All the different 3M products can sure be confusing! Sounds like you're getting a handle on it, and it really does take some experience so just stick with it. Every job will turn out a little better and go a little easier.



I'll risk being a broken record and suggest that you find some PI-III MG 05937 while you can still get it. By rotary/DA-RO/hand it's just great.



I don't see any problems using the pneumatic DA with the wax or with many other products (like glazes) if you like using it...
 
Yea this whole time I thought I had ordered the PI-III MG but it did turn out to be the PI-II MG. Not sure the difference here, but I will definately try to pick some up. Let me get this straight, the glaze is like a sealant/finishing polish, right? Or are sealants different?



Hopefully the results will get better, and faster (it took ALL day yesterday just to detail the outside).



What is a good product for getting polish/wax off of plastic/rubber. Also something that will protect rubber and plastic, while giving it a good shine. I would like to be able to find it locally, but if not I could order it.
 
TravisT said:
Yea this whole time I thought I had ordered the PI-III MG but it did turn out to be the PI-II MG. Not sure the difference here, but I will definately try to pick some up. Let me get this straight, the glaze is like a sealant/finishing polish, right? Or are sealants different?



What is a good product for getting polish/wax off of plastic/rubber. Also something that will protect rubber and plastic, while giving it a good shine. I would like to be able to find it locally, but if not I could order it.
Click to expand...



The PI-III MG 05937 is simply a mildly abrasive polish, ignore the misleading name (I hate it when makers do stuff like that :rolleyes: ). Not a sealant, not like that at all. You apply your wax/sealant after removing marring with the 05937. I find the name *so* irritating that I prefer to use the part number :D



Griot's sells a product to remove wax from trim/etc. Sometimes you can take it off with a simple solvent or clay. Sometimes it's very tough to get it off!



I usually just use the Klasse twins on plastic trim. As dressings go, I like Autoglym Bumper Care, but most people use more readily available stuff.
 
Did I understand you correctly? Use Klasse twins (AIO and Sealant) on plastic/rubber trim? From reading the description on it, it seems to be a paint polish and paint sealant. Can you use something like this on plastic/rubber?



The main area I have gotten wax/polish on is the door handles and fender flares. If you are familiar with late model GMC trucks, these pieces are made of a rough plastic. I think most of what I got on them is polish, so it should wash off with water. If it's wax, that won't be so easy. I plan to wash the truck this weekend, and I will try a magic eraser first (as someone suggested) to see if that will work.



Is it bad to polish and not use a sealant? I think I read somewhere that you should, so hopefully I didn't do any damage. I guess you would have to have all of the wax off before sealing as well right?
 
TravisT said:
I also smear the polish/glaze/wax around before turning the polisher on. I am using the 1000 rpm speed for now. The problem is my area seems to be dry after 30-45 seconds.



Does this sound right? I didn't know if I was using too little product or pressure, or if outside temp would have anything to do with it. It is near (if not over) 100 degrees outside, and when I moved the hood from the direct sunlight into my garage, it was hot enough to burn you. I washed it and dried it, and before I began with the polisher, it was cool to the touch (as cool as it is going to get in 100 degree weather). Any suggestions?



I also sprayed the pad down with a bit of water (about two sprays from a spray bottle) just to help keep things from drying out.
Click to expand...





I use a bottle of QD to keep polishes from drying too quickly. If its not working as long as I want it to, a quick spray on the panel lets me keep going. Take it easy on the QD as too much can cause sling, but personally I find this invaluable when using my rotary. Usually I try to work the compound/polish for 2 minutes per section.
 
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