UK PC Alternatives

S

Samoth

New member
Firstly, I have had a good search and read all the threads I can find where these are discussed, but I've not really been able to come to a conclusion, so I thought I'd state it as a more direct question.



I'm still trying to fathom if the PC is just a low speed random orbit sander.



I already own a Metabo SXE 450 Duo which has a 150mm (6" more or less) hook and loop backing plate, so it seems like PC pads would fit it. Speedwise, it goes from 4000 to 10,000 opm, which puts it at the higher end of the PC speed ranges, as far as I can work out around the 4-6 settings on the PC.



These seem to be pretty commonly used speeds for light swirl removal and polishing - I'm not sure what people are using the lower speed ranges for.



So it seems like I *could* use this instead of ordering a PC from the US. Whether I *should* is another matter :)



If people don't think trying that is a good idea, the other two options easily available in the UK are the Makita BO6040, which seems well reviewed on here, but rather expensive at over 200UKP.



The Bosch equivalent, as far as I can make out is the GEX 150ACE which seems very similar in capabilities to the Makita, except that I've seen it on sale for around 140UKP.



I appreciate that by getting a PC and a transformer, then you have the advantage of a wealth of knowledge on here about speeds etc that you wouldn't get with one of the others, but the convenience of a 240v model without having to lug a transformer about seems nice.



From the cost effectiveness point of view then using the Metabo I already own would be rather handy :D, so I'm tempted to try it on my gf's old car which we'll be selling soon, which is swirled to hell already, so I figure I can't make it any worse ;) and the pads at least could be reused if I give up and buy a PC.



So, advice/opinions etc anyone?



Thanks,



Sam.
 
I saw something that concerned me on the product description.



"Rotation and additional orbital movement of the base plate for optimum finish."



That leads me to believe this might be more of a rotary/random orbital combo machine. I saw something else on this board a few weeks ago that I can't recall at this time. The PC doesn't force rotation, which creates heat and the potential damage factor of a rotary. It may work, if you're careful and skilled, but I don't think it's nearly as fool-proof as a PC.
 
zzyyzx said:
I saw something that concerned me on the product description.



"Rotation and additional orbital movement of the base plate for optimum finish."



That leads me to believe this might be more of a rotary/random orbital combo machine. I saw something else on this board a few weeks ago that I can't recall at this time. The PC doesn't force rotation, which creates heat and the potential damage factor of a rotary. It may work, if you're careful and skilled, but I don't think it's nearly as fool-proof as a PC.
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On the Metabo, it's definitely not *forced* rotation, there's no drive of the pad that way. The Makita and the Bosch do both have a forced rotation mode that you can switch on and off, but the Metabo doesn't - from looking at the machine it just seems that the pad is free to rotate as it orbits too.



I'm certainly not skilled at this though, which is why I'm being cautious here :)



Sam.
 
Samoth said:
I appreciate that by getting a PC and a transformer, then you have the advantage of a wealth of knowledge on here about speeds etc that you wouldn't get with one of the others, but the convenience of a 240v model without having to lug a transformer about seems nice.
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This is the exact reason why I made the decision to import a PC - the advice factor that's available here. I'm pretty sure you could get a PC shipped over here for no more than £100GBP. It's well worth it IMO. Plus you'll have that piece of mind, knowing that 1000's of other people around the globe are using the exact same piece of equipment.



As for transformer 'lugging' - I solved that by purchasing a suitable USA extension cord from a friendly USA ebayer. I leave the tranny in the garage and work on the car outside - no 'lugging' necessary! Just make sure the extension cord accepts a 2-pin polarized plug and you're laughing!
 
I would strongly suggest the use of DeWALT DW443. The speed is roughly 4000-6500opm...slightly more powerful than PC7424. It doesn't vibrate alot and it functions quite similar to PC7424.
 
zey said:
I would strongly suggest the use of DeWALT DW443. The speed is roughly 4000-6500opm...slightly more powerful than PC7424. It doesn't vibrate alot and it functions quite similar to PC7424.
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Yup, I can see the similarity. Reading the DeWalt site, this again seems to suggest that it's just a normal Random Orbit sander, which does point at the Metabo I already have being possible to use for this too.



Hmmm, interesting... I suspect some experimentation in my future :)



Sam.
 
One point that may be of concern is that the orbit of both the DeWalt and Metabo are around 5-6mm. The PC has an orbit of about 24mm (~ 1inch). As I understand, that together with the lower orbit speeds of the PC help to make it the paint safe tool that it is - and the reason I chose a PC. May be worth asking some more experienced members of this forum on their views of this?



Cheers,

Phil
 
Bought my 110V converter and 14M extension lead from ScrewFix. I decided to remove the 2 prong plug on my PC and replace with a yellow safety plug:
 
PhilS said:
One point that may be of concern is that the orbit of both the DeWalt and Metabo are around 5-6mm. The PC has an orbit of about 24mm (~ 1inch). As I understand, that together with the lower orbit speeds of the PC help to make it the paint safe tool that it is - and the reason I chose a PC.

Click to expand...



24mm? Blimey, that's big compared to most Random Orbit sanders. Can't actually find the details though, it doesn't give an orbit size on the Porter-Cable website, nor in the users manual that you can download from there.



However, the Makita BO6040, which people do seem to have been using successfully for this purpose only has a 5.5mm orbit size, so that does make me wonder. The other puzzling thing is that the Metabo I have is switchable between two orbit sizes, and the smaller one of the two is designed for less material removal, and a finer finish than the large one, which doesn't fit with what you're suggesting about the PC orbit size - not that I'm suggestion you're wrong mind you!



Unfortunately I geek about tools just as much as everything else (hence visiting autopia in the first place to geek about detailing), and I want to know *why* the PC is the right tool for the job, rather than just get it because everyone else gets it :)



Thanks,



Sam.
 
Is there anything from Bosch that resembles PC in ease of use?From the spec, will Bosch GEX150 ACE up to the job of removing swirls AS well as applying wax or sealant? Can't find any Dewalt here so I guess I have to settle for Bosch.



TIA :)
 
Well, I think you are completely correct to "geek about tools"!



FYI, DavidB (the owner of Autopia) wrote this article where he actually measured the orbit of the PC to be 15/16inch = 23.8mm - I have no reason to doubt him.



I notice from the link you gave that the Metabo specs are:

Unique "Duo" orbit diameter setting; Setting 1 (small orbit diameter 3 mm) up to 100% finer surface finish; Setting 2 (large orbit diameter 6 mm) up to 70% higher sanding performance
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I had not realised that the Makita had such a small orbit as well - this is indeed interesting since, as you say, it is a popular alternative to the PC.



Cheers,

Phil
 
Hi



I am in the UK and bought a Dewalt 443. I have used it and can confirm it does a very good job indeed. I have had no paint burn through or similar and am using the Meg's pad with it. I therefore would say that if your machine is the same in function then use it with some decent pads.



I initially ordered a PC from the US and the transformer from Screwfix but at the last minute changed my mind because if something were to go wrong it would cost £50 to send there and another £50 to get shipped back. All the hassel on top for the extension cord and transformer are just not worth it in my opinion. Also many people are successful at using a transformer but eventually it will burn the motor in their machines. The frequency issue is not a small one and anything with a heavy duty motor will suffer. Having said that I have read that someone in the UK has been using his PC for over 1 year without any problems. If you have a DA polisher then by all means go ahead and use it with some pads and determine the results for yourself.



HTH.
 
PhilS said:
Well, I think you are completely correct to "geek about tools"!
Click to expand...



I tend to do it with everything, I'm a career geek (work in data encryption and networking) :)



FYI, DavidB (the owner of Autopia) wrote this article where he actually measured the orbit of the PC to be 15/16inch = 23.8mm - I have no reason to doubt him.
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Oh yes, so he does. That's a handy article, and does clarify that point.



The variable size orbits on the Metabo certainly seem to work in the way they're advertised (when used for sanding wood, which is what I originally bought it for), the smaller orbit setting gives a very fine finish.



I had not realised that the Makita had such a small orbit as well - this is indeed interesting since, as you say, it is a popular alternative to the PC.
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Yup, it was the popularity of the Makita which made me wonder if I could use the Metabo - the Makita (and the Bosch 150ACE) both have the added trick of being able to do forced rotation of the pad, whereas the PC and the Metabo both just let the pad rotate freely (until enough pressure is applied, as David points out in his article.)



I'm not sure how orbit size works in this kind of application - as far as I can see part of what's needed with polishing, particularly with some of the 'diminishing abrasives' kind of products is a tool with enough 'grunt' to break down the product correctly - rotaries have this in abundance, hence the tendency to melt your paint off in the hands of the inexperienced - whereas I get the impression that the PC (and Cyclo etc) have just enough to do the trick for lightly damaged surfaces, while not being able to generate the speed and heat of the rotary, thereby remaining safe in the hands of idiots like me :)



Interesting stuff this (well to me). Thanks for your input!



Sam.
 
rahula said:
Hi



I am in the UK and bought a Dewalt 443. I have used it and can confirm it does a very good job indeed. I have had no paint burn through or similar and am using the Meg's pad with it. I therefore would say that if your machine is the same in function then use it with some decent pads.

Click to expand...



Ah that's very interesting to know, the DeWalt has a 5mm orbit size too according to their specs, so that does suggest that the smaller orbit size isn't a problem in itself.



I know I can get the Megs pads in the UK, or order some of the (bewildering) variety available from the USA (I think I'll ask about those in another thread though :))



I initially ordered a PC from the US and the transformer from Screwfix but at the last minute changed my mind because if something were to go wrong it would cost £50 to send there and another £50 to get shipped back. All the hassel on top for the extension cord and transformer are just not worth it in my opinion. Also many people are successful at using a transformer but eventually it will burn the motor in their machines. The frequency issue is not a small one and anything with a heavy duty motor will suffer. Having said that I have read that someone in the UK has been using his PC for over 1 year without any problems. If you have a DA polisher then by all means go ahead and use it with some pads and determine the results for yourself.



HTH.
Click to expand...



Yeah, I had similar concerns about what to do if it went wrong and the like. The 60Hz vs 50Hz is an interesting one - with a 'simple' motor this shouldn't matter, but in the case of something with electronic speed control then I would think that it was possibly an issue in the long time - I'd not really considered that aspect.



Looks like I'll be giving the Metabo a go and seeing how I get on. Still interested in comments from any of the 'gurus' on the issue though.



Thanks!



Sam.
 
rahula said:
Hi



Also many people are successful at using a transformer but eventually it will burn the motor in their machines. The frequency issue is not a small one and anything with a heavy duty motor will suffer. Having said that I have read that someone in the UK has been using his PC for over 1 year without any problems.
Click to expand...



Lifted this from the 7424 manual



MOTOR

Many Porter-Cable tools will operate on either D.C., or single phase 25 to 60 cycle A.C. current and voltage within plus or minus 5 percent of that shown on the specification plate on the tool. Several models, however, are designed for A.C. current only. Refer to the specification plate on your tool for proper voltage and current rating.
Click to expand...



This lead me to believe that there should be no problem in running from a transformer in the UK.



Cheers,

Phil
 
There is no problem running a PC in the UK, I also have a large extension lead (15m) and so no lugging anything heavy. I bought my PC about 18 months or so ago and no problems yet.



The only way you are going to know if you like the Metabo is to buy one. It seems to fit the spec and sounds like a good tool.
 
Lowejackson said:
There is no problem running a PC in the UK, I also have a large extension lead (15m) and so no lugging anything heavy. I bought my PC about 18 months or so ago and no problems yet.
Click to expand...



Well that's good to know, if I end up going that way...



The only way you are going to know if you like the Metabo is to buy one. It seems to fit the spec and sounds like a good tool.
Click to expand...



Ah, well I already *have* the Metabo, which I bought a year or two ago for woodworking, so I know it's good for that :) I was just trying to work out if it was safe to try it on my car with the appropriate pads too. Looks like it is, so I'll be ordering some pads so I can give it a go :)



Sam.
 
The Bosch PEX 420 AE (6") is a great alternative - many people in the concours scene here in the UK use this and the 400AE (5"). Quite cheap and readily available.:waxing:
 
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