UDM, LLC white & FPII...now holograms, why?

B

BRODEY1

New member
I finally had a weekend to breakout the new UDM and all my other new products.



My car is 14 years old, this was its first machine polishing. I've always used proper washing and drying technique, and the paint really was in great condition.



My only problem areas were the front hood and back trunk, water etching and random scratches only, the sides and bumpers looked awesome.



I used Menz IP on a LLC white pad for the hood and trunk then FPII on white. I finished with KAIO on LLC green and KSG by hand.



My trunk and hood look awesome now, but my sides now have, what I believe is called "holograms" that were not there before and seem to be the same size as my 6.5" pads, which I changed out often.



Again, the sides were done with FPII on white and KAIO on green, so I either did something wrong with the FPII or the Klasse, and since KAIO is a chemical cleaner, I'm leaning toward the FPII as the culprit.



I washed and clayed very well before starting.



What do you think I did wrong?



-moved the UDM too quickly or too slowly

-did not give it time to breakdown

-wrong pad

-wrong speed (used 3-4 as per instruction)



Anything else??



99% of people would not notice it, but who cares about them??:D



Thanks for any input, and please feel free to ask me any questions if it would help.



Thanks!
 
Its really hard to get holograms with a PC.



But your speed is too low as it should be 5-6. So you might not of broken down the polish all the way.
 
5-6 huh? Then I was definitely using too low of a setting. I don't have it in front of me, but I could swear it said 3-4, but I'd rather take real world recommendations than info from an instructional pamplet.



Thanks!
 
post some pictures.maybe are not holograms but maybe you didn't clean enough the KAIO that you applied.Also speed 5-6 is better.
 
gmblack3a said:
Its really hard to get holograms with a PC.



But your speed is too low as it should be 5-6. So you might not of broken down the polish all the way.
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+1.

The only times I've gotten holograms with a PC were due to too slow of a speed and not breaking down the polish all the way.
 
There should be no doubt, particularly if you have a pattern. As stated above, speed it up to at least 5.5 or 6.



Also, don't just go over a panel once, but got over it twice or more in SLOW overlapping patterns. Especially with a white pad. If you're not getting enough cut, use orange. but be sure to follow up with white.



Overall it sounds like you're getting some good experience, sounds familiar. Ah, the good days of trial and error. We all still have them.
 
Also isn't the LC green supposed to be more abrasive than the white? Perhaps try a black/gray pad to finish off.
 
Sounds like marring to me...



On soft soft paints i often get marring where the paint has a slight cloudy look in the paint. Usually i can see the overlapping of the buffer.



Usually this is caused due to the pads being too aggressive.



The green pad has heaps of cut. Using that with Klasse would have caused the problem.



Go over the paint with FP11 with the softest pad you have. probably the white pad.



Then check the same sections again. Just do one panel and cheap.



Apply the klasse by hand.
 
I was going by the recommendations from ProperAutoCare, the site I bought the pads from.



They said to use the white pad with Menz IP and FPII, which I did..



They then said to use the green pad with KAIO, and other one step polishes/cleaners, which I did..



Both of these recommendations actually used all 3 products by name.



Thanks for all the input guys! I obviously messed up somewhere, just gotta figure out where.



No biggie, I really enjoyed myself, and I guess if I nailed it on the first time I would have no room to learn, which I enjoy doing also.



:waxing::waxing::waxing::waxing::waxing::waxing:
 
Actually with the UDM I would start out with a little over speed four and then after you get the product spread out 2' x 2' section increase the speed to 5 or 6. A rotary will roll the abrasives around to cut while they diminish (break down) at a uniformed high rate of speed. When using a UDM (especially with 6.5" pads) they pound the abrasives in if you start out at too high of a speed. A pad that size will not rotate easily and you are probably only getting the orbital movement. This will leave you with holograms and even with what I call stitches. It is a pattern left by the abbrasives that look kind of like a stitch pattern. Then you almost have to go with a stronger polish to cut down past them. I always start out at 4.5 and give the abrasives a chance roll and start to break down, then increase the speed and break the polish down completely and uniform.



Also, you said that you changed pads often. Just be careful when doing this. A dry pad that has not been primed will get you every time. Usually the orange pads (especially LC new ones) will hurt it but it is possible to do it with the white pads.



Lastly, make sure you not going larger than the 2' x 2' sections. Actually I would probably go with 1' x 1' and slow way down. With a white pad the risk of burning is really close to Zero and give yourself enough time. Let the abrasives distibute in your section then raise the speed and give it time to break down. With holograming (IMO) the second step is the most important. Go over it twice or three times with FPII. Also go out and get a halogen lamp or spotlight. One will do and you can get one for 5 dollars. After every pass and wipe down put the halogen up to it at an angle and check your work. Don't look directly into the lite but at the side so you are looking at the reflection with an angle. Believe me, it will show you every stinking flaw that is there.



All just IMO
 
So, it seems the majority seem to think it was the speed setting, need to bump it up to 5-6.



Do I now need to strip the one layer of KSG, or can I go right back over it with FPII on a white pad?



Thanks for all the great advise!
 
Also, there were a few mentions about using KAIO on a green LLC pad, like I said, Properautocare recommended that combo...what is the consesus here about KAIO and pads?
 
BRODEY1 said:
Also, there were a few mentions about using KAIO on a green LLC pad, like I said, Properautocare recommended that combo...what is the consesus here about KAIO and pads?
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ProperAutoCare is wrong.



Dont use the green pad with KAIO.



You are meant to go to a softer pad each process and a softer product too.



You start off with a cutting pad and a compound to remove the defects and move to a polishing pad and a polish. You then go to a finishing pad with a finishing polish as the finish gets more and more perfect. Just like sanding u start with a lower grit and finish with a fine sand paper.



You've just gone backwards and on soft paint that means marring.



If i used a green pad on my car to even apply a wax or sealant the whole car would be cloudy with marring due to the soft paint.
 
TTWAGN said:
ProperAutoCare is wrong.



Dont use the green pad with KAIO.



You are meant to go to a softer pad each process and a softer product too.



You start off with a cutting pad and a compound to remove the defects and move to a polishing pad and a polish. You then go to a finishing pad with a finishing polish as the finish gets more and more perfect. Just like sanding u start with a lower grit and finish with a fine sand paper.



You've just gone backwards and on soft paint that means marring.



If i used a green pad on my car to even apply a wax or sealant the whole car would be cloudy with marring due to the soft paint.
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Thanks, it seemed a bit backwards when I was ordering everything, but like I said, it said it right there on the damn website...green for KAIO. Live and learn :doh



So, I can stick with the white LLC's for Menz IP and FPII, right?



The next softest LLC pad is the black one, should I use that if I want to apply KAIO with the UDM?



So now I'm stuck with 5 green pads that I have not used....how can I best use those, which products would an Autopian use them for?



So can I now just go back over the entire car with FPII on a white pad to get the marring out?



Thanks!
 
BRODEY1 said:
Thanks, it seemed a bit backwards when I was ordering everything, but like I said, it said it right there on the damn website...green for KAIO. Live and learn :doh



So, I can stick with the white LLC's for Menz IP and FPII, right?

Yup. :)



The next softest LLC pad is the black one, should I use that if I want to apply KAIO with the UDM?

Yup



So now I'm stuck with 5 green pads that I have not used....how can I best use those, which products would an Autopian use them for?

I have a few of those green pads wasting valuable cupboard space, too.



So can I now just go back over the entire car with FPII on a white pad to get the marring out?

That should work. If FPII doesn't work, you might have to go to a stronger finishing polish like Ultrafina or Menzerna PO106FF, but the FPII will probably work just fine for green pad induced marring. Also remember that pad induced marring can also be caused by over-working your polish. If it looks like it's starting to dry up on you, stop and re-apply if you need to keep working an area.



Thanks!
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(10 char min)
 
Ya know, I've got a crap load of fresh white pads, anyone try them with KAIO?



Or should I just wait and order some black pads for that?
 
I'd use the green pads with Menzerna IP as the green pad suits it better than the white pad.



White pad with FP11 and black pad for AIO
 
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