To clay or not to clay ?

Clean Dean

Clean Dean

Keep it clean !!!
As a professional I would not even think of buffing out a car before it has been properly clayed. I realize that clay is not cheap, but even compounding and polishing does not alway get out all of the minute evironmental contaniments. I know a few detailing operation near me that only offer claying as an upcharge.

What do you think to clay or not to clay? Should it be an upcharge? Should you build it into your price (I do)?

BTW... If you get away with exterior detailing without claying and still get your price more power to you. I just believe that claying is now a mandatory step in a complete exterior detail.
 
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I'm not a professional, nor do I play one on tv - but I can't imagine doing a detail without claying!! :eek

I don't think there is any easier step in a detail that yields more dramatic results :bigups

It should just be "included" in your 'full detail" price - IMHO
 
I build it into my price. Well when I raise my prices I will at least. I don't make it an option as it is a necessary step. Only time I charge specifically for it is if it is something out of the ordinary like paint overspray and such.
 
I offer it as an upcharge. But here is how I work it.

After I complete polishing, if I feel surface contamination remaining, I contact the customer before proceeding. Before I started the detail, I will have prepped the customer by letting them know my opinion on whether or not their car would need clay. If I say it does not need clay, I let them know that my opinion is based upon a visual inspection and that it may change as I get into the work.

If the surface contamination is just on horizontal portions of the car, I do sometimes clay the car gratis.

I've noticed that there isn't nearly as much to cause surface contamination here in the OC as there was when I lived back in Philly. And most of the cars I deal with out here are garage kept or only brought out on weekends. So it's not much of an issue for me. The cars that seem to need it are the ones that sit near freeways all day or cars that go into LA on a regular basis.
 
Clean Dean said:
As a professional I would not even think of buffing out a car before it has been properly clayed. I realize that clay is not cheap, but even compounding and polishing does not alway get out all of the minute evironmental contaniments. I know a few detailing operation near me that only offer claying as an upcharge.

What do you think to clay or not to clay? Should it be an upcharge? Should you build it into your price (I do)?

BTW... If you get away with exterior detailing without claying and still get your price more power to you. I just believe that claying is now a mandatory step in a complete exterior detail.
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I have to say that I agree with you 100% on this Clean Dean. Machine polishing should always be performed after contamination has been exfoliated with detailing clay.

I have heard that people clay after machine polishing, this sounds backwards to me. In fact, I liken it to waxing a dirty car before washing it. Machine compounding, polishing and swirl removal is much easier and more effective when the paint surface has been clayed beforehand.

I also agree that it should be included in the quoted price of the detail and performed whenever it is needed. When it comes to professional detailing, the customer doesn't necessarily need to know how you make their paint so slick. Once you tell them about detailing clay, they stop calling you and start calling auto detailing product suppliers so that they can do it themselves. :naughty
 
I have a slightly different approach to this.

Since I have to wash the car anyway, I usually do a
decon wash first. This usually is enough to remove
most of the contamination on the paint. If I still find
bonded stuff after the wash, then I'll break out the
bar and go to work on those area.
 
I always clay the cars its more of a matter of wanting to return a quality product back to the customer. I charge enough that I can get away with it.

Dean on my thread "Detail Out Sourced" I had a mobilie guy do a SUV for me and all he did was wash and buff with a PC with a AIO type product. You could still feel the crap on the paint, I put a coat on Nattys on just to make it look better but the car was no where near my standards.....So to answer your question


YES CLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
wasssup CD ? :)

here is a question then back to you - and one I often wonder about claying - if the paint is in overall good condition but in need of claying then yah - clay away! But if the paint needs some work, compounding or ssr work -doesn't that remove some of the clear any way? I'm not a paint expert but it seems to me that embedded contaminents can't be that far down that a good corrective step and a rotary aren't going to remove them..

any thought?
 
I think it really depends on a lot of factors!

Most of us here are in business to Make money! (We all don't detail the same amount...) But I think we all understand what it takes to do a job right and know what a quality job is.

CD is absolutly correct in order to "Properly" do a full detail there are no questions asked Claying is necessary (Show car like Clean Dean did the other day may not need something like that but it depends on the car) But 9 x out of 10 even if a car was just driven off of the show room floor that car needs claying!

Dean to answer your question I think that its the right thing to have clay built into your detail price! And when you come accross that seldom 1 or 2 details that don't need it! Give your customer a break! Or even better yet ... It may be worth it to throw in a free quick wash or something like that so that you can possibly drum up more business!

Just some thoughts
 
My thoughts on polishing before claying are that to be able to remove swirls, you definately do not want to be spinning the contaminants around with your pad while buffing. Claying beforehand removes these contaminants before you use the buffer.

Claying doesn't correct paint flaws, it removes contamination. Remove the contaminants first and then use the buffer/polisher to repair paint flaws.

To me, polishing before claying is kind of like grinding and spinning contaminants into the surface where using a clay bar with plenty of clay lube is pulling contamination out of the surface and into the clay bar.

If any marring at all is induced by the claying process, polishing afterwards will remove it.
 
We clay every but a wash. I buy clay by the case and go through 2-3 cases a month. Yes it is expensive but I pass the charge onto my clients.
 
I've included claying into my cost. My thoughts were:

1. Why up-sell something that is a fundamental step to a pro detail. Most locals don't use clay. Stand out from the crowd.
2. Most clients have never heard of clay which makes up-selling difficult. It's hard to describe clay to a potential client without them raising their eyebrows. Claying is better to demonstrate rather than trying to verbally describe. After the demo you'll have a 99% success rate if you choose to up-sell.
3. If I didn't try to up-sell the clay step (budget buyers), I hate to clay a test area for the client to observe after the detail is complete. Since most of my clients just drop off and run they see/feel the test area upon delivery of the vehicle. Their next question is why didn't you clay the whole thing?
4. I don't like to call my clients until the detail is complete. Just something about stopping and trying to track them down seems like a waste of my time. That's where my check-in sheet comes in handy, to cover all the potential questions I might need answers to upfront during the price quote phase.
5. Claying is awesome and sells itself!! The time it takes compared to the appreciable results is great.

As for telling clients what products or clay I use. I'm upfront about that. Most of my clients lack the time to detail and maintain their vehicles. If I do get a client interested in products to detail and maintain their vehicle I know where to send them for orders! ;)
 
Very good points CD, Srub, SS, and Dwayne. You can't up charge clay and call yourself a professional. If they don't want to pay $100-$185, then they need to take it elsewhere. Most of my clints could care less what clay is or what it does. They want a professional detail and leave it up to me. Once I tried to talk with one of my customers about engine detailing, and how I was going to do it. He pretty much wasn't intrested on how I was going to do it and cut me short to take a phone call. :lmfao Another point that needs to made...... If they are too cheap for your full detail price, then send them to another deatiler. I send all the cheap-skates to a guy who will do an entire car for $75. He uses a pressure washer, does everything else by hand and extracts the carpet with a shop vac. I warn them that he is cheaper and what he does. If you are a pro, you should clay. I clay 80% of the vehicals I do and if they don't need it, I don't do it. The vehicals I don't clay are the one's I do every 3 months and are kept inside. But in the south I usually only see rail dust.
 
I work claying into my prices. If i were to add clay as an upcharge to a detail then I wouldnt ever do it. Most clients in my area are cheap and choose what they want done based on prices and not what there car needs. I thnk this is probably true of a lot of people who get details done.

Greg
 
Yes to clay, yes to include the additional step in the quote, yes to explaining the step to the customer. No to including the "complete" clay step in every detail. I do find myself spot claying on a good majority of vehicles including repeat customers.
Dwayne said:
... When it comes to professional detailing, the customer doesn't necessarily need to know how you make their paint so slick. Once you tell them about detailing clay, they stop calling you and start calling auto detailing product suppliers so that they can do it themselves. :naughty
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Whether they "need to know" or not is not even a question. They have entrusted a significant investment to my hands and if they want to know, I'll tell them what steps I'll be taking to provide the results I acheive. If they want to know specific products, including mfg, I'll share. I believe that an educated customer is a return customer because it is a rare occurence when they want to put that much time and sweat equity into the process themselves. Knowing the steps involved also hels the customer also get a better understanding about why I charge what I charge and that it is no accident that their vehicle looks as good as it does. :)
To say the customer doesn't need to know is like saying that you don't need to know what your broker does with your investment dollars -- I don't think so.
 
Mr. Clean said:
Yes to clay, yes to include the additional step in the quote, yes to explaining the step to the customer. No to including the "complete" clay step in every detail. I do find myself spot claying on a good majority of vehicles including repeat customers.
Whether they "need to know" or not is not even a question. They have entrusted a significant investment to my hands and if they want to know, I'll tell them what steps I'll be taking to provide the results I acheive. If they want to know specific products, including mfg, I'll share. I believe that an educated customer is a return customer because it is a rare occurence when they want to put that much time and sweat equity into the process themselves. Knowing the steps involved also hels the customer also get a better understanding about why I charge what I charge and that it is no accident that their vehicle looks as good as it does. :)
To say the customer doesn't need to know is like saying that you don't need to know what your broker does with your investment dollars -- I don't think so.
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You may notice that I used a smiley to add a bit of sarcasm to my statement but it was sarcasm based on real experience. I can appreciate the fact that you want to educate your customers. Good for you. I'm sure that they really appreciate that.

If you knew what your broker knows, would you NEED him or would you handle everything yourself, save yourself a few bucks and eliminate the middle man? As was said earlier, many customers are more interested in the "how much" than in the "how to". Claying isn't common knowledge among the average consumer. If you give them the best possible detail that you can provide and they are happy, why give away your trade secrets if you don't have to?

Here is one definition of trade secret:

Trade Secret - a plan, process, tool, mechanism or compound which a company desires to keep confidential as a competitive advantage.

How many professional detailers would like to have or are in need of a competitive advantage? That was simply the point of my statement.

What you call a rare occurence isn't so rare afterall. I have seen it happen numerous times with a local detail shop. He would spend hours detailing a car and when the customer was amazed, he would explain to them what he did. Once they saw how easy the claying process was, many of them did not go back to him when they realized that they could save alot of money by doing it themselves. The quality of his work was and is excellent. He had the cleanest and best-equipped detailing facility in town but when it comes down to it, $175 buys one detail at his shop or buys the average car owner a lifetime supply of detailing products. I'm not saying that 100% of his clients started detailing their cars themselves but enough did catch the detailing bug to get him to stop "giving away the store" and sharing all of his tricks of the trade.

Happy detailing!
 
Dwayne said:
Once you tell them about detailing clay, they stop calling you and start calling auto detailing product suppliers so that they can do it themselves. :naughty
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That is completely untrue. Most people who invest in your detailing services do so because they don't want to or don't have time to detail their car themselves, not because they don't know how or know what products to use.
 
I always clay whether or not the whole needs to be clayed. I usually find a few places which need to be clayed, so if I am doing the few places why not clay the whole car. Claying usually does not take that long, on average about 15 to 45 minutes depending on the size of the vehicle and bonded Containments. The cost of the clay and time needed added into the price of the detail. Claying help to give the finished surface extra slickness and a little bit more gloss, which many people look for a freshly detailed car. As has been said previously, many people will price shop and do not care what you do, but rather how much you charge and that the car looks good when done.

The longest it has ever taken me to clay was just over 2 hour, and this car ate over 300 grams of clay and a lot of lube.

Eric
 
edschwab1, I find myself spot claying my personal vehicles with most washes. I don't as a normal practice do that for each client's vehicle unless it is something that really sticks out visually or was discussed beforehand.

A two hour clay job :eek What did the rest of the vehicle look like?

Dwayne, my broker volunteers the information on the instruments he is suggesting and usually why he thinks those would work in my portfolio. If he didn't volunteer that information, I would ask and would expect answers -- if not I would go somewhere else. Even without the information from the broker the information for personal investors is out there. I pay him for his service - which is taking the time to research and narrow down potential investments.

From my experience automotive clay is hardly a trade secret. I have found its use more widespread than I would have thought, but then again with the product being on so many retail shelves I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Retailers covet their shelf space and wouldn't stock it if it wasn't a "mover".

My "education" of my customers is really just for new customers and for those who are naturally inquisitive. It is not to educate them in detailing but to educate them as to why my services may be more expensive than those of the local "tunnel" wash folks.

What we do, though it requires a knowledge of product and technique, is not brain surgery or rocket science. Yes the everyman can do what we do, but can he do it as well as we can (maybe). Does he have the time to devote to doing the job? Does he want to invest the sweat equity to do the job? I wonder after working several hours in the heat if the customer who left your friend's business didn't decide that he was getting a good deal and came back for subsequent services :)

FWIW, after instructing a "one-timer" on the usage of a PC, he bought one for himself. The distance between us was too great for me to consider traveling to his location (especially with today's gas prices :angry ), but he does refer friends and clients to me. He is content to keep his full-time job and maintain his own vehicle now.
 
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