This will affect us all

M

Mr. Chemist

New member
Tomorrow I will go to Chicago to attend a workshop dealing with the latest consumer product survey from the California Air Resource Board. This workshop is sponsored by CSPA.



Many of you probably don’t know that the amount of VOC's, that is valuable solvents that are allowed in car waxes and polishes, is controlled by CARB?



Any company that sells a product into California will be mandated to reduce the VOC content in their product to 15% by January 1st 2005.



CARB believes that car waxes and polishes are contributing to smog.



This is very significant in that many waxes and polishes, rubbing compounds etc....contain up to 60% and 70% in their formulations. Many of the products that you are used to using will have to change their formulations in order to sell into California....and that includes the net. Many companies who are unaware of this legislation and those with limited R&D capabilities are going to be blindsided by this.



Remember this affects not just those who manufacture in California...but any company that SELLS into California.



The other important thing to recognize is that as California goes...so goes the nation...one state back east (forgive me I forget which one) has already adopted this legislation. More will soon follow.



It is therefore, important that all manufacturers become aware of these policies, educate themselves about them and take appropriate steps to be sure that any products they sell into California meet the standards as mandated by law. The fines are significant. Even more important is that all manufacturers understand that this is just the beginning of CARB's regulatory efforts upon our consumer product category...and that we must take a united stand to promote a uniform front of reason so that legislation does not cripple our industry.



Mothers, along with Meguires, Eagle One, Armorall just to name a few car care companies.....have been working together for years to mitigate the effects of this type of legislation. There is still much work to be done and I encourage all manufacturers to take notice of these governmental regulations...it's only a matter of time before all will be affected. If you in any way, shape or form have your products for sale in California....you are under a mandate to conform to the law.



http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm



http://www.arb.ca.gov/consprod/regs/regs.htm

(click on the third bullet)



http://www.cspa.org/



I will be back on Monday the 27th to revisit this important issue here.



Craig Burnett

Mothers
 
Yeah, been reading about this on web-cars. Megs already had to modify their Detailer line to conform . I sure hope this doesn't seriously diminish the abilities of all the products we've come to know and love and others we have yet to try :(



Please keep us posted Craig :xyxthumbs
 
The other state is Delaware.



And, since Craig types as poorly as I do, it's volatile organic compounds (VOC's) this refers to.



Other states are considering copying the standards. We're all in deep trouble.
 
Maybe I'm just ignorant of the facts, but does the quantity of VOC's released by people detailing their cars REALLY have a significant enviromental impact? :nixweiss I just don't see it myself. If someone knows better, please let me know.



Is there somewhere to read up on this topic?
 
This is a good change.



While it does mean all manufacturers will carry the burden of new development cost, it brings us to a new sense of responsibility for the environment, ourselves and our cars. Let's face it, petrolleum solvents are not a good thing.



Necessity is the mother of all invention... in this case, reinvention. This is goodness.
 
RedondoV6 said:
Maybe I'm just ignorant of the facts, but does the quantity of VOC's released by people detailing their cars REALLY have a significant enviromental impact? :nixweiss I just don't see it myself. If someone knows better, please let me know.



Is there somewhere to read up on this topic?
Click to expand...



Did the level of VOC in paints have a significant environmental impact?



Did gasoline fumes escaping from the pumps have a significant environmental impact?



Did refrigerant gasses (like Freon) have an environmental impact?



Did aerosol propellants have an environmental impact?



YES THEY DID! And, so do the VOCs in car care products.
 
Car care products are a small segment of the household product category, including paints, insect sprays, cleaners, etc. No single product or product category has a huge impact, but all of them together do.





Tom
 
Some companies like Mother's and Collinite are being great about not sugar-coating this and letting us know what to expect :xyxthumbs



If you can get a straight answer from the manufacturers of products you like, you can try to determine which products you might want to stock up on if you like the current formulations. Otherwise it's just guesswork.
 
DavidB said:
Did the level of VOC in paints have a significant environmental impact?



Did gasoline fumes escaping from the pumps have a significant environmental impact?



Did refrigerant gasses (like Freon) have an environmental impact?



Did aerosol propellants have an environmental impact?



YES THEY DID! And, so do the VOCs in car care products.
Click to expand...



OK let me play devil's advocate here :)



I am aware of whole bodies of scientific study into some of the examples you list including the use of freon and aerosols The general concenus in the scientific community seemed to be that in the quantities being used, both were capable of causing significant depletion of the ozone layer.



What are your sources supporting the claim that detailing products have a sigificant impact on the enviroment? What quanty of each of the VOC's is being released into the enviroment annually and what quantity of each VOC would be needed released before the enviroment is impacted in any measurable way. Also, what mechanism or reaction actually causes the enviromental damage by each VOC?



If you can answer these questions, I take my hat off to you :bow



I look forward to learning about the issue and being able to make a personal decision on the debate, based on a reasonable review of the relevant facts. At the moment, I just do not know enough to offer up any meaningful opinion :o



Persuade me! :D
 
If a product has 50% less VOC's in its new formulation, but only lasts 50% as long as the old formulation, the net result is the same amount of VOC's going into the air, since you have to apply twice as often.



That's not an improvement, that's science.



Agreed, I want less pollution because it's better for the environment, but I want it to come from technology, not government intervention.
 
forrest said:
If a product has 50% less VOC's in its new formulation, but only lasts 50% as long as the old formulation, the net result is the same amount of VOC's going into the air, since you have to apply twice as often.



That's not an improvement, that's science.



Agreed, I want less pollution because it's better for the environment, but I want it to come from technology, not government intervention.
Click to expand...



I couldn't have said it better myself! :bow
 
forrest said:
If a product has 50% less VOC's in its new formulation, but only lasts 50% as long as the old formulation, the net result is the same amount of VOC's going into the air, since you have to apply twice as often.



That's not an improvement, that's science.



Agreed, I want less pollution because it's better for the environment, but I want it to come from technology, not government intervention.
Click to expand...



The problem with your argument is based on the assumption that the VOC's are the protective agents in waxes and polishes. I have always thought and studied that VOC's were the carrier of protective agents like carnauba and amino-resins and imported upon these agent (protectants) containing products user friendliness with an inexpensive carrier agent (VOC's) and in carnauba’s case a necessary cost-effective part of its formulation (spreadibility, drying, etc). The loss of the percentage of VOC's should have little or no impact on durability and a more environmentally friendly carrier "will" be found with some R&D. An example would be Zaino with very low VOC content but extremely good durability. Downside: Cost increases necessary to cover the new carrier cost and R&D. :xyxthumbs



Will these new regulations have a global effect on the ozone layer? No, well not until all states, developed and 3rd world countries adopt the same alertness to the fact we exist in a unique situation here on Earth and there is no escape or new frontier within our present technology to move on to if we destroy this planet.
 
blkZ28 - the problem most manufacturers have run into is that changing to a slow release solvent caused the carnauba (in this case) to act slightly different, primarily to the negative. In other words, the product did not last as long. I'm not the chemist, just the sales guy. But, I do know samples I used didn't last near as long as the current version of the products.



I know of a few manufactures who tried water based products instead of solvent based. In that case, the water diluted the carnauba, instead of acting as a carrier. The protective qualities really went down the tube on those versions. And, using the product was temperature dependent. It takes a LONG time for water to evaporate at 55ºF so the product can be buffed off.



I't s a learning curve, granted. And, I have no doubt eventually things will work out. But, there are more pressing issues in the world than the VOC's being released by car care products. Try cleaning up the exhaust emissions of the million of junky cars driving down the street instead. All that billowing smoke from their tailpipes is doing more damage.
 
Thanks for the response Forrest. :bow First hand experience always beats applied theory. :xyxthumbs



Yes, there are bigger polluters to go after with resultant larger impact on environmental quality. Unfortunately, they have big $$ lobbies and big $$ contributions to maintain the status quo by placing their business friendly people in office.

These high $$ shanagans keep the dogs at bay concerning their contributions to our environmental problems. :(
 
Glad I'm not living over there.

The Dinitrol and Autoglym polishes that I have are totally voc/petro distillate/solvent etc free and alot I have are very low



I can see this heading to australia eventually.
 
SVR said:
I can see this heading to australia eventually.
Click to expand...



As well it should. The only known gap (complete ozone absence) in the ozone is just south of you, increasing in size with each study data analysis and the skin cancer rate has already increased in New Zealand.

Of course this is a result of global production of ozone destructive agents that resulted in a local health and welfare problem. :(
 
Agreed, I want less pollution because it's better for the environment, but I want it to come from technology, not government intervention.
Click to expand...



I heartily agree.



I have not seen any convincing evidence that VOCs impact the environment in a way the greenies say it does.



I think a good environmental policy must balance priorities among those options we know will have a real impact on improvement versus what some options special interests may want.



If someone can share information about how VOCs will negatively impact the environment, then I will keep an open mind.



There is, unfortunately, no free lunch here. If car care firms have to create new technology to meet CARB regulations, then the cost of that development will be passed on to us as consumers.
 
When was California supposed to slide into ocean? :angry I also can't believe that car wax and cleaner contribute THAT much.
 
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