That last 10% of swirls...

B

BoxsterCharlie

New member
I'm taking a very scientific approach this year. I need to do a full post-winter job on the Boxster but I decided not to just dive in.



So I picked a rear quarter panel with moderate swirls and went for it. I spent an hour trying different combos on about a 12 inch patch--all applied by hand. I used a flashlight and a jeweler's loupe to check out the surface.



I seemed to get the best results using 3M Imperial Medium Cut rubbing compound followed by a couple passes with 1Z Paint Polish. But...still I have slight swirls in my test section. In the bright sun they are subtle but definitely ruin the illusion of "new car" we all try to reach. I rememeber I had the whole car to this exact point at a concours. The judges deemed the paint perfect but I could easily see flaws under noon sun.



OK, so do I need to dig deeper with a rougher compound or go the other way and find a finer polish than the 1Z? Especially as a woodworker I "get" the whole concept of needing multi-stage polish process but I am frustrated than I can't tell the difference between going deeper to remove flaws or needing extra stages because my intial leveling bites aren't being fully removed.



Or, is the goal of perfect clarity just impossible? I've been here on Autopia for a couple years and I admit perfection seem more like a religious quest than something actually obtainable.



Totally open to your ideas.



-Charlie
 
Charlie,



Honestly I believe you may be better off with just living with the swirls, paint longevity wise.......BUT I can totally understand where you are coming from and I personally would attack those swirls like enemy #1:scared



By hand though you may have a tough time. A rotary with a finishing pad, Menzerna Final Polish and a wet buff would prolly be just what the doctor ordered and then follow that step with a PC or Cyclo, perhaps even by hand, and some more FP and BAM! It should be lookin sweet:up



You may be at the stage where some heat and friction is needed to get those stubborn marks out and trying to reach that level of clarity by hand may only be adding to it, hence the source of your frustration.



Anthony
 
Unfortunately, this is a common problem. I suffer it myself everyday. I think the remaining swirls are the deeper ones.



The decision: Keep compounding?? Depends of expectations ( yours or your customer).



Many times, even a new special polishing cloth produce micro-marring. Ahhhh. It´s disappointing.



The theory is perfect, but many paramethers play the game.



Sometimes I doubt what I see in the pictures. I would like to take the opportunity to inspect one of thouse shown in this forum, to find out if its possible to remove 100% of swirls.



This topic is driving me crazy



Good luck
 
If I had to choose between perfection or permanantly losing 20% of my clearcoat, I'd obviously pick the latter. And it seems to me that would be what it would take, unfortunately.



Pictures totally lie. I wanted to add pictures to this post, but when I reviewed the files they all looked great. Very tough to photograph swirls.
 
I am in the same boat as you. On my 5 year old never polished car I used SSR3 with a yellow pad (2 passes), then SSR1 with a white pad both on a PC at speed 5 or 6.

I still have 10% of the swirls left and am unsure how to proceed (if at all).

Since I will be polishing the car in the future (maybe 4x per year), I think I'm just going to save the clearcoat right now.
 
You folks who are deciding to have "thick but imperfect paint" as opposed to "thin but perfect paint" get a :xyxthumbs from me and also from my thin and imperfect, but original-paint Jag.



Possible exception: people with very hard paint who take insanely good care of their vehicles. E.G., get an Audi perfect and you can keep it that way (unless you have a life), just ask BradB.



aqua- No way to prove it (especially now :( ), but I had my S8 perfect. Used numerous lighting sources and varying levels of magnification, I couldn't see a thing, marring wise, anywhere. But that was the only time I've been able to do it, and I've been trying since the '70s. And I started with a nearly perfect new car that had never been touched when dirty.



Heh heh, yeah, you *can* have a perfectly marring-free finish, but then you'll just hit a deer and it won't matter anyhow ;) :o And if you DO get it marring-free, you'll have to use an extreme wash method to keep it that way, which most people just won't do (got over three hours for every wash, with no margin for error?). One careless contact with a bit of abrasive dirt and it's not perfect any more.



So yeah, it can be done, but no it usually isn't practical.



Those of you trying for that last 10% - first, figure out if your remaining marring is from a) swirls, etc. that you didn't get out, or b) micromarring from the stuff you're using. Perhaps try "directional" polishing- use/remove your last polishing product in a front-back/up-down motion so you can tell if *it* (or the media with which you apply/remove it) is causing the problem.



BoxsterCharlie- Two more polishes you might try:1Z MP followed by Menzerna FP. Those will leave about as fine a finish as (made-for-automotive paint) abrasives can provide. Anything left after those would be from a)stuff you didnt' remove with your heavy compounds or, b)marring from your application/removal media (so use your best MFs).
 
I know the stuff I have is just slightly deeper than what SSR3 on a PC will remove unless I do at least a couple more passes. Half a dozen passes with SSR3 may not be wise:nixweiss



I just hate to say I'm so good at polishing my paint and then people look at it under direct sun and say "hey you still have some swirl marks!" :mad:



Too bad the previous owner probably washed with a nylon brush!
 
I must confess I am creating those micromarring. I have investigated following your advise.



After polishing with 3M Fine cut rubbing compound + Yellow pad + high speed buffer 800 rpm, my black VW Golf it look perfect. Wouhh!!

Then I used Sonax Glass cleaner and dry it. I suspected some fillers could be in.



When drying, I noticed the Water Blade produced some micromarring. I realised it due to micromarring direction.



Later, I repeated the process drying with a MF towel. Same result.



I took out every time my car to check it under direct sunlight.



I really depressed, because I do not know solve the problem



What Could I do?
 
Aqua- Heh heh what you could do is follow the advice in your signature line " Enjoy life!! and your car" in that order. Don't sweat the minor marring. But since this is Autopia....



Here's a thread about how I wash the S8 and the Jag: Extreme Wash Thread



I use the water blade on some vehicles, and if I get them perfectly clean (and keep the blade clean), it doesn't mar them. But maybe you oughta quit using it, if only to remove one variable from the process.



Make sure you're using a soft enough wash media (mitts, etc.) and that they don't get contaminated with stuff that won't rinse out (I'll use *many* mitts to wash the S8). Use a high-lubricity shampoo.



If it's the drying that's doing it, try blotting with WWMFs. You can lay regular towels on the horizontal surfaces and then just pick them up (without moving them around) to get some of the excess water off first. Use plenty of WWs, I'll use four for the Audi (and then more when I blow the water out of the nooks and crannies with compressed air).



I wouldn't worry about "fillers". Trying to remove them might cause more problems than just using products that work OK together. I use PI-III RC and MG (05933 and 05937) and I don't worry about them leaving anything on the paint. If the MG *does* leave a residue, I'll just do the vehicle with AIO, which cleans it off safely.



Finally, there are some glazes/LSPs that can help minimize how noticeable the remaining marring is. Just using a "heavy" wax like Meg's #16 can help quite a bit.
 
This is a great thread. When I tell people about detailing, I say straight off the bat, "Don't expect your car to be 100% perfect." I've discovered this many times in my short but fulfilling detailing journey. Most recently, my black Audi A4 has taught me a lesson or two on how NOT to approach detailing.



I started out with a reasonable paint surface with some swirlign and micromarring. After 3 or 4 detailing sessions in a row, I ended up with some holographic looking swirls that didn't seem right and never really disappeared. No surface swirling.



Of course, to my local car club, my car was flawless and to my wife, my car was perfect. For me, though, it was still 95% there. I finally decided to just finish off with Menzerna IP/FP with Meguiar's Show Car Glaze and P21s. This did the job and I am now happy again.



But again, for a daily driver like mine (especially in a pollen filled area), I've come to learn that detailing nirvana doesn't involve perfection, it involves being happy with what you have.
 
I used to wash with clean lamb´s wool mitts and Sonax high gloss shampoo.



I think I made the mistake when drying. I will follow your advise and try blotting with WWMF and see what happen.



By the way , congratulations about your Extreme Wash thread
 
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