Testing setup to finally settle the score: Fresh Paint v. Wax/sealants

R

rcrobbins

New member
Well the time has come to put an end to the age old controversy of waxing and sealing fresh paint. I don't know of this test ever being performed, so I'll take the hit and make it official. In doing so, I want forum members to offer input on what they would like to see done within the test. I have a sun roof panel and rear deck lid and a variety of colors.

Here is the current process which I was thinking:

1. Prep the primed panel to 600 grit as regular, primer sealer, 3 coats of paint (3 coats of clear if BC/CC).

I'm giving the majority vote to paint with the choice of BC/CC Met. Black (I recommend for showing any clouding which outlines the "known" but "untested" problem that occurs) I also have a wide variety of single stages (red & gray on hand) 2 stages (red, black, white on hand). Buying another paint isn't a problem if the majority demands it.

2. Once the paint is applied (with correct flash time btw coats) I will wait for the manufactures full cure as posted on the container, which is usually ~12-18hrs in most cases.

3. Without wet sanding/buffing, automatically section the piece off into testing columns.

The first of which will be the control, having no protection applied.

4. The second column will be the first "worst case" variable, split into two sections. The top having a wax and the bottom having a sealant (of Autopian choice).

5. Here is where majority comes in again. The # of columns, amount of time, and LSP products will be to your demand!



I have heard a range of time to be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months and even 6 months. Now is the time to chime in if this peaks anyone's interests! Once it's settled and have agreed on what variables are best suited, I will begin the experiment. I may not have all the products on hand, so it may take a week to amass the LSP's chosen. If anyone sends me a sample and a date benchmark, I will automatically put it on the panel in ONE column as desired. Not to interfere with the majority, as there will be plenty of space. If not, I'll get a bigger panel, since I have spare hoods on hand. I just don't know how big this test will be yet....could be a couple of inputs to fit on a sunroof or I could end up in the epic zone of painting 3 hoods at once:heelclick
 
rcrobbins- Heh heh, talk about taking one for the team! I appreciate your willingness to give this a try.



How do you plan to test for end-result? My concern is always whether the paint will reach its maximum potential hardness, so *I* would want to see what happens with paints that are supposed to cure *hard*. A paint I'd term "medium hardness" (e.g., typical Glasurit) would be mighty hard to evaluate in this regard unless it turned out stupid-soft.



I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but I see a whole lotta variables here that'd be hard to take into account, from the paint itself, baked/not, environmental conditions, nature of LSP (type, application) :think: I guess you could shoot for best/worst case scenarios and look for obviously significant end-results.



Heh heh, I bet some guys (like yours truly) will just keep glazing fresh repaints for 90 days and other guys are just gonna wax 'em...no matter what your results are. And there I go being a wet blanket again, sorry.



Anyhow....my $0.02:



I'd use various LSPs in an attempt to cover all the significant differences, since all "waxes" are not the same and ditto times 10 for sealants.



Wax: "conventional", e.g., #16, Souveran, Zymol Estate Glaze; "hybrid", e.g., Collinite 845 and/or 476S; and "water based", e.g., OCW.



Sealant: "light", e.g., UPP and/or BlackFire; "heavy" e.g., FK1000P; "acrylic", e.g., KSG (layered); and "none of the above" (for lack of a better term :o ), e.g., Zaino.



I think that'd cover the bases, but sheesh I just made the whole thing seem unreasonable, huh?!?
 
You guys are sure putting you time in...that is admirable. Anything you do to Glassurite in my experience wont or cant kill it no matter what. I have it on one of my Jags. It is the most forgiving correctable clear coats I have ever worked with. I seal or wax as needed 2 weeks after the panel is painted...that is with todays paints. In 1972 things were different. In my experience you cant slow or STOP the out gassing (Drying) of any paint. In your experiment it may be difficult to identify any differences perhaps because your using to good a product...perhaps you should use a less expensive brand of paint. I dont want to offend any brands but several come to mind. May I say your efforts here are nothing less than galant! Bravo!!
 
The New England weather is more than a test to any car detailing product I have ever seen. Connecticut alone dumped an estimated 180 tons of salt on its roads in a season. Make sure you use road salt on your panels...you will soon see not many panels will bead and show protection once you introduce salt into the equation. Some guys like the look of wax some sealants or glazes. I use what looks the best on that particular vehicle. I suggest to my clients who sometimes like to wax their vehicles, to use what works best for them. They indicate usually that I work best for them. I in turn Thank them and take their money.
 
Also, Good Luck on the experiment ......its nice to see dedicated folks investing in the name of fellow associates....Keep up the quest, for the results. Waxes and glazes or sealants which I try to stay away from....are very much the same. All vehicles should be polished twice per year at minimum if they are kept out in the elements. Some customers will get their vehicle done 3 times per year. This is the foundation I use for my service. Protection sells where it Snows 18 feet per season. Happy motoring!
 
Accumulator- I plan it on being a visual test for hazing/clouding or noticeable defects such as lamination issues. I was planning on using Nasan brand paint/clear. I find it a good common ground paint that's cheap and good quality from Dupont. I think it's a great 2k clear coat and the only thing better would be SPI universal clear. Good input on the types of waxes and sealants, on hand I have Megs 26, NXT2.0 and Opti seal. I think one of the Collinites would be good, as well as blackfire and OCW. If KSG or Zaino products are used, I would limit them to 1 application of each, not layers. If a defect comes from a layered product it becomes another inconsistency of "how many layers is too many".

Paintxpert- The test panels are spare pieces and wont be used on customers cars, so testing on the roads isn't an option. Also, I'm just testing alone for defects caused by the product, not durability. I plan on keeping the test panels out of the weather just to have more control on the experiment, because: 1. People would complain about wax not lasting as long as sealant 2. consistent lighting and angles to photograph the results and record. In terms of the paint curing, it will be baked by IR. The duration of the bake and temp of the panel (pyrometer) will be noted.
 
rcrobbins- I'll defer to your expertise on the paint; I *had* thought of Spies-Hecker, if only because IME it usually cures very (nice and) hard.



Yeah, good to limit the variables (Re layering).



I only mentioned all those different LSPs because, *IMO*, they're pretty different.



Again, my primary concern would be the paint attaining max potential hardness. I'd be very surprised if there were some other issue from LSPing like clouding/etc. let alone some kind of catastrophic failure. I'm just a fanatic about my paint not ending up stupid-soft and I've had *so* many instances where modern (and baked) paint continued to outgas and harden over surprisingly long timeframes.
 
As a former body shop employee and now a detail shop owner I must pipe in. I have buffed, polished and waxed many paint jobs that were only a day old. All modern paint cures, it doesn't dry. Hence the hardener.
 
Accumulator- I agree that Spies-Hecker has a good line of paint and clear. The only down side to them is the cost POV. With Nasan, I can buy it in quarts for around $50 clear/hardener. With Spies and the Chroma line, they're sold by the gallon from my jobber and with larger quantities of hardener to accommodate. That alone would put just the clear coat well over the $150 mark, which is more than I'd like to spend at the moment, even though I would have a large amount left.

Loveyourcar- Thanks for the input with experience waxing a day old job. That makes the experiment look promising. I just want to test a range of products and put an end to all the talk of "you should ask the painter to see if it's ok". I'm a painter and I don't even know for certain. Most painters call the manufactures and of course they're going to tell you the generic answer of 2-6 months to cover their risk of the paint failing.
 
rcrobbins- OK, I won't argue with trying to keep the cost reasonable! I just hope you use something that'll get hard enough to determine the issue that *I* am interested in regarding LSPing fresh repaints.



loveyourcar said:
As a former body shop employee and now a detail shop owner I must pipe in. I have buffed, polished and waxed many paint jobs that were only a day old. All modern paint cures, it doesn't dry. Hence the hardener.
Click to expand...



I've experienced modern (and baked) paint continuing to harden for months. That's first-hand, unmistakable differences in hardness to the point where I had to use vastly different products to effect correction. The paint outgasses (you can clearly smell it) and gets harder as it does, simple as that.



Note that this is something that most people would simply never notice or care about. And it'd be hard to track unless you were doing correction on the repainted panels over an extended period of time.
 
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