Swirls vs. PC vs. Rotary

S

superstring

New member
I was just reading the review of the Makita 9227 Circular Polisher in the Autopia "Reviews" section.



What caught my attention was a statement from the description of the Makita from the CMA website, making reference to the Porter Cable 7424:



From: http://www.properautocare.com/makhigspeedp.html



Dual action polishers (like the Porter Cable 7424) visually reduce swirls by rounding over top edge of the swirl robbing sunlight of a sharp edge to cause a reflection. Fillers in the polish then fill in the swirl making it less noticeable. While the vehicle looks swirl-free, the swirls are still there and re-appear over time.
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Is this correct? I always thought the PC would remove swirls, it just would take a lot longer than with a rotary. :confused:
 
I'm curious also cause that would go against everything as I understood it:nixweiss. Maybe they meant with certain polishes/cleaners so another :nixweiss !



So subscribing
 
It just depends on the paint and the products and the technique.



I've been able to remove minor marring ("swirls") from a number of vehicles with just the PC. That's "remove" as in they're really *gone*. But in most cases the "minor marring" was so minor that most people wouldn't see it anyhow. But a few times I've been able to remove some pretty bad flaws. Took *many* hours though. 4" pads help a little as will aggressive products that don't need heat to break down (Hi-Temp comes to mind).



I've also been unable to remove minor marring from some vehicles, most notably Audis, with just the PC. A whole pint of 3M FCRC, a wool pad, and many hours- the marring was merely "rounded over". And yeah, a rotary *in the right hands* will make short work of this sort of marring. Even a Cyclo can work wonders compared to the PC, but neither cuts quite like a rotary.



Note that the CMA quote is ad copy. Since many people will be unable to completely remove marring using only a PC (for a number of reasons, including an unwillingness to spend hours on a single panel), that description of the "difference" between the two machines will sell some rotaries.
 
Thanks for the replies. :)



Accumulator, do you own/use a rotary? I'm wondering just how "dangerous" they are in the hands of a novice, like me? :D

The CMA writeup makes the Makita sound like a rotary for the masses ;)
 
SuperString- Yeah, I have a Makita rotary. They aren't all *that* dangerous if you use common sense, but they're not as foolproof as the CMA ad copy makes them sound either.



Years of using a Cyclo with "rotary-style technique" (never letting it stop moving, thinking all the time, etc.) and having used a rotary with wool pads on single stage back in the day might, however, make *my* version of "common sense" a bit skewed.



FWIW, I hardly ever use the rotary, but when I need it I'm glad I have it.
 
A rotary isn't as dangerous as you thought. I dont think you will burn the paint as long as you dont stay at one spot too long and push the machine hard. At first use, 1000RPM feels and sounds scary because it feels like its moving about twice as fast as a PC on speed 6. But after a while, you gain confidence, you crank the speed up higher. Sometimes i work up to speed 1800 - 2000rpm with Wool Pad with no mishaps. Actually at higher speed, the rotary seems to "glide" much easier.
 
The Makita is a pretty easy machine to get the hang of - I've punched out 3 cars so far with mine, and so far no buffer burn, holograms, etc. I'm not sure if its natural talent or just dumb luck. Probably the latter :).



I love my Makita, and I'd never go back to the PC. Maybe the Cyclo, if I was just working on my own cars, and time wasn't money. The difference in terms of speed and to a lesser extent, finish quality, are amazing between a PC and rotary. I once spent 3 hours on a single panel via PC on my heavily swirled GTP. Flash forward about a year, and I've buffed out entire cars in less time than that (and gotten em functionally swirl free, to boot), via rotary.
 
Accumulator said:


Years of using a Cyclo with "rotary-style technique" (never letting it stop moving, thinking all the time, etc.) and having used a rotary with wool pads on single stage back in the day might, however, make *my* version of "common sense" a bit skewed.
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Question about the Cyclo technique, do you move it side to side only, or do you move it up and down/back and forth(which if i understood it correctly:o, shouldn't be done with a rotary), when polishing?
 
Mark77 said:
Question about the Cyclo technique, do you move it side to side only, or do you move it up and down/back and forth(which if i understood it correctly:o, shouldn't be done with a rotary), when polishing?
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Although I generall like to treat it like a rotary, using figure-8s (just for the practice/muscle memory reinforcement), you can use it any way you like; it's just a "PC that doesn't bog down" and is very forgiving of imperfect technique. Side to side, back/forth, whatever is convenient and comfortable for you.



And it's not like you *have* to use a rotary in figure-8s, that's just how I've always done it.
 
With the PC and Cyclo I sometimes do all three: left to right, up and down and figure 8.



I should practice the figure 8 via rotary some more but I'm most comfortable with the simple side to side.
 
Bill D said:
I should practice the figure 8 via rotary some more but I'm most comfortable with the simple side to side.
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Only problem I have with the side to side is that it's tough to avoid a "pause" at the end of each stroke, right before you change direction. But then I have no idea whether I'm just unnecessarily splitting hairs :nixweiss



Back in the days of single-speed rotaries/wool pads/ss paint a slight pause could do some serious damage (to both the paint and my employment status :D ).
 
I know there are "dedicated" foam pads made for rotary use, but is it "OK" to use DA pads? What are the pros and cons?



Like a number of you, I find the time required to remove paint defects (swirls this time) is just way too long with the PC. But, if I were to get a rotary, it would be nice if I didn't have to shell out for a complete new set of pads as well!
 
superstring-Yeah, you can use DA pads on a rotary. I use the same pads on the rotary as on the PC and Cyclo.



Bill D- Yeah, with the figure-8s the machine is always moving (if you're smooth about it) so no pause at the end of a stroke = no "extra work" being done at that point.
 
I've used a rotary (Makita) buffer for many years and never had any problem and even showed 16 year olds to old guys my age how to buff in a few minutes and they did their entire cars without a buffer burn or marring. The trick is the right pad and polish combo, keep the pad flat against the paint, don't use too much pressure (the weight of the buffer is plenty) and move a brisk pace (unlike the PC wich requires 4-5# of pressure and a very slow pace). I can buff to the same or better quality of finish with a rotary in half the time of my PC. Where the rotary fails is in splatter control, specially when you rush and specially on convertibles where the splatter is not easily cleanable.
 
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