Swirls inevitable?

rockford33

rockford33

New member
I detailed my new Subaru one time so far. Used my PC, PB's PP with LC (I think) white polishing pad. The car is the dark regal blue pearl color. For the most part, the car looks great. However, in the sun, at the right angle, I can see tons of swirls. If you have your head almost touching the car and look sideways down the length of the car, the swirls are easy to see. I think part of my problem is my pad, as I have had it for at least a year. Although I only detail my own cars, I think it may have seen the end of its useful life. But with such a dark colored car, is it almost inevitable to get some swirling? My wife's Toyota (done with the same pad) doesn't look like it has any swirls (platinum gray metallic).
 
Are you using the pad the came with it? Did the swirls just appear after the last time of detailing? Have you always washed and clean the pad after each use and store away in a bag? There might be a very tiny particle hidden within the pad, pad worn out.......just sugesstions as a starting point.
 
Luv-N-It said:
Are you using the pad the came with it? Did the swirls just appear after the last time of detailing? Have you always washed and clean the pad after each use and store away in a bag? There might be a very tiny particle hidden within the pad, pad worn out.......just sugesstions as a starting point.
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I have never used the pad that the PC came with. Always had an LC pad, also bought a new Edge pad (but haven't used it yet). As far as I recall, the swirls appeared after the last detail (brand new car). I don't think the dealer swirled it, but he sure left a lot of water spots. Pad is always washed and cleaned, but not stored in a bag. I think to be on the safe side, the pad is going to be tossed as it is fairly old.
 
rockford33 said:
I have never used the pad that the PC came with. Always had an LC pad, also bought a new Edge pad (but haven't used it yet). As far as I recall, the swirls appeared after the last detail (brand new car). I don't think the dealer swirled it, but he sure left a lot of water spots. Pad is always washed and cleaned, but not stored in a bag. I think to be on the safe side, the pad is going to be tossed as it is fairly old.
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Don't be too sure the car didn't have the swirls when it was delivered. I don't know what products some of these guys use, but they can do an amazing job of hiding paint defects. The stuff doesn't seem to last long, but they sure can cover up a lot of things.

Charles
 
rockford33 said:
is it almost inevitable to get some swirling?
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Yes....yes it is. Unless you never drive it, store it indoors, and never let anything touch it. Then maybe.

Fortunately, there are products, procedures, and people that can help fix it up!
 
Sounds like you did not work the product in enough or long enough I should say. I recommend SSR2 followed by Polish with Carnuba and top that off with EX-P.
 
rockford33 said:
I have never used the pad that the PC came with. Always had an LC pad, also bought a new Edge pad (but haven't used it yet). As far as I recall, the swirls appeared after the last detail (brand new car). I don't think the dealer swirled it, but he sure left a lot of water spots. Pad is always washed and cleaned, but not stored in a bag. I think to be on the safe side, the pad is going to be tossed as it is fairly old.
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Rock,

Is the Edge pad one of the new Edge 2000 snap-on pads? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with it.

Regarding the swirls, I bought and sold a '05 Legacy GT Sedan (unresolvable problems with the seats) in the last two months. Except for the seats, I liked the car in many ways - fun to drive, fast, nice ride.

I can't say the same for the dealer service. The detailing was horrible. When I traded the Legacy for my wife's '05 Forester, the Forester arrived in the same condition. Although it was clean, it was full of swirls and scratches. One of the problems was that the dealer used a high-pressure pressure washer to clean the cars on the lot. I think that caused part of the problem. So I suspect that some of your paint problem was caused by the dealer.

Regards,

Dan.
 
rockford33 said:
Used my PC, PB's PP with LC (I think) white polishing pad.
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Try the swirl removers. PB SSR1 or 2.5.
PP isn't really designed to remove swirls, just clean the paint.
 
Swirls aren't "removed"

Just a heads up about swirl "removal".
Swirls in the paint aren't removed, the paint around them is leveled and blended into the area so the swirls are no longer visible.
When you "remove" swirls, you are removing some paint. It isn't usually much, but it is some. Because of that, I don't use swirl removal products very often, and I don't use very aggressive ones.

Charles
 
Talking about car dealerships I was on a BMW lot not long back and was watching the AM guys wash the cars. All they did was spray off and wipe down. I could still see dirt on the car as they drug the towels across the cars to wipe clean and dry.

Next I did an 04 Corvette that had a 7 inch scratch on the hood was not on the car whne they took delivery, but a few weeks later when they had washed the car a few times, it came threw. A good filler wax is about all I could say. I was able to wet sand it out and all was well.
So to answer your question about dealership they are great for helping you with swirls.

Swirls in the clear are what you are trying to remove and the reason that they look so bad on dark colors is that the paint is magnifying threw the clear making them stand out. At least that's my take as why they always look bad.

Anyway I agree with Charles you should start with a swirl remover the PB SSR2.5 with a cutting pad working well into the clear. Then a polishing pad with SSR 1. Then follow up with PB P-w-C this can be done by hand or with a polishing or finishing pad. I'd then top by hand with EX or paste wax. On dark colors I prefer both with a 24 hours cure time on the EX.
 
Charles,
I didn't notice any swirls, but you are right that they could have been covered up by the dealer.

Big Leegr,
Ever see those car bubbles they sell in the California Car Care catalog? Unfortunately, it is my daily driver, otherwise it would be in a humidity controlled bubble!!

2001,
I only used Pro Polish on the car since I didn't think it had any swirls (none visible). I think the PP uncovered the swirls. I am going to try SSR1/polishing pad first, then go from there. PwC, then EX x2, followed by Natty's should protect it over the winter.

Dano,
I think it is the regular Edge pad, not the snap-on type. Again, sorry to hear you couldn't keep your Subie. I enjoy driving it everyday more and more.

gnev8,
See reply to 2001 above.

beemer,
Sounds like a plan, although I might start with SSR1 to see if that does the trick first.

Thanks for all of the replies guys. Winter is fast approaching here in Maryland, so I am going to be scrambling to get my Subie and the wife's Toyota winterized (especially since her fender was just repainted last week).
 
rockford33 said:
I detailed my new Subaru one time so far. Used my PC, PB's PP with LC (I think) white polishing pad. The car is the dark regal blue pearl color. For the most part, the car looks great. However, in the sun, at the right angle, I can see tons of swirls. If you have your head almost touching the car and look sideways down the length of the car, the swirls are easy to see. I think part of my problem is my pad, as I have had it for at least a year. Although I only detail my own cars, I think it may have seen the end of its useful life. But with such a dark colored car, is it almost inevitable to get some swirling? My wife's Toyota (done with the same pad) doesn't look like it has any swirls (platinum gray metallic).
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This is the kind of marring also visible under a set of 1000 watt halogen work lights.

Removal may depend on the hardness of the paint. IIRC I think someone somewhere said Subaru paint is hard? :dunno. Don't quote me on that.

If it were me withe polishes and pads I have, I'd give 1z Paint Polish with a white polishing LC pad via PC @ 6 a shot. I'd see how that makes out. I'd repeat until the paint cleaned up well. Then, to be sure the 1zPP isn't hiding anything itself I'd spray the panel with some isopropyl alcohol /water mix or Prepsol (or equivalent) This will remove any left over residue. If this doesn't do, bump up to 1z PP and a cutting pad and work you way back down to using the polish pad again. I don't think these kinds of defect require anything stronger than 1z PP or a good substitute.

I'd probably follow with 1z MP ( just the mix again) or Menzerna FP. There are a lot of other fine alternatives as well.

After that you're ready to apply your LSP (s) of choice.
 
What causes swirls? If one didn't use a PC, would one have random scratches or would one have swirls ??

If the swirls are the inevitable byproduct of using a PC or rotary on the final layer applications, then in what "layer" -- clearcoat, paint, sealant -- are the swirls contained in?

I haven't noticed swirls on my new Honda, and older cars I have I just see scratches all over in a random pattern, not some swirl pattern.
 
HondaMan said:
What causes swirls? If one didn't use a PC, would one have random scratches or would one have swirls ??

If the swirls are the inevitable byproduct of using a PC or rotary on the final layer applications, then in what "layer" -- clearcoat, paint, sealant -- are the swirls contained in?

I haven't noticed swirls on my new Honda, and older cars I have I just see scratches all over in a random pattern, not some swirl pattern.
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Personal opinion. Most of the marring or fine scratches that we refer to as "Swirls" are introduced during washing or drying.
True swirls are usually caused by improper use of a polisher or buffer.

Any time you are drying your car and the towel becomes soiled, you didn't get yor car clean when you washed it. If I managed to get a vehicle really dirty, be it dirt, mud, salt, whatever, I have been known to wash and rinse my vehicle, then wash it again. You might be surprised at how much you have missed.

Also, IMO, some of the imperfections are in a layer of wax/sealant and can be removed with a good cleaner/polish.

Charles
 
NYV6Coupe said:
charlesw: let me know if you'd like to give FPII a try, I'll send you a couple ounces.
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Thanks for the offer, but I'm pretty satisfied with Meg's #9, right now.
I do think I would like to try the new 4 Star Ultimate Swirl Mark Remover next time I need some.

Charles
 
FP ( not FP II, will get next time) is an excellent non filling light polish. It's my very last polishing step before LSP application :bigups
 
BookemDano said:
Rock,

Is the Edge pad one of the new Edge 2000 snap-on pads? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with it.



Dan.
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Dano if you go the PAC forum here you'll find tons of reviews on the Edge 2K pads due to the new promotion thats going on . Good luck :bigups
 
rollman said:
Dano if you go the PAC forum here you'll find tons of reviews on the Edge 2K pads due to the new promotion thats going on . Good luck :bigups
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Rollman,

"... PAC forum..."? Sorry for being a little dense today, but I can't find that one. Did I miss something?

Regards,

Dan.
 
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