Swirls Created By Variation Of Buffing Speed

I

imported_aqua

New member
Hi !!



I have suffered one extrange result when high speed buffing a red Toyota Celica with 3M fast cutting compound (Europan Version) . I was trying to remove swirls created by typical agresive European automatic roll car washes.



It was working fine around 1000-1300 rpm, but when increasing to 1600 rpm ( I wanted to remove clear quicker to save time) I realised I was generating new swirls (less deeper than the originals)



IS THAT NORMAL? WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHY?



Many Thanks
 
That is normal, you must let the product work. As Mike Philips says when buffing, if you try to hurry you'll loose more time later.
 
Hi Jose!



Thanks for your answer.



Do you know the real reason why these swirls are created?



Something I did not expect was that after applying this fast compound the surface was glossy without any haze. I waxed just after this product.





Before that trial I tried to apply a polish (Sonax) after the 3M fast cut compound but I created more swirls. The same kind than when I increased the buffer speed.



I thought the theory teach that after compounding is needed a polishing step before waxing.



Obrigado
 
The fast cut compound really works well. I've seen my self on circumstances that if I wanted I could have stopped right there, after it.



The polishing step after it is still recommended, it'll bring more clarity and reflectivity to the finish. If done with a rotary, one should be using a finish pad at a very low speed moving slowly on the surface.



Check these videos made by pros (Mike Phillips from Meguiars)
 
I have done the same thing myself when first using my rotary, with DACP. If I slow the speed at which i move the polisher over the paint to about 4 inches per second, I did not produce holograms. This is when the rotational speed was constant. I'm sure there are parallels with high rotation speed. I have always been scared skinny of high rotation speed producung sufficient heat to damage the paint, so I now never go over 1000 rpm with any cutting pad/polish combination, except when using Menzerna FP and a finishing pad, then I may go to about 1300 RPM. Never any higher for me at my current skill level.
 
Hi!



After reducing the buffing speed everything got better. But even after using this 3M fast cut compound some swirls were left. I belive I didn´t create them. They were the originals, but reduced to a minimum size.



I want to remove them all. But after using the compound I am afraid to remove too much clear.



The 3M dealer has told me to user a grinder with 3M discs (3000 grain), to avoid compound several times. I guess some softer than wet sanding 2000.



What do you think about this grinder with such discs?



Thanks folks!!
 
Hi JGV



Do you have the same problems when removing automatic car washes swirls?



How do you deal with them?



Which chemical serie would you recommend me to get rid of these deep swirls?
 
You can do it all with the 3M PI-III line.



This 730D was awfully swirled,



730d_2.jpg




After doing some tests with machine compounding, I decided to sand it with those 2 or 3000 grit 3M abrasive foams, here's a bad pic of the car sanded:



730d_4.jpg




I then remove the haze with the rotary, a Megs cutting pad and 3M PI-III Fine Cut Compound.



Here's the same car after polishing (PC w/ Megs yellow pad and 3M PI-III Machine Polish) and waxed (3M PI-III Finishing Glaze by hand):



BMW730DSIDE2.jpg




I usually top it w/ P21S CW for an incredible finish, but I didn't had the time on this one.
 
Congratulations jgv



You did a nice job. This 730D needed big help. I am sure the owner would be very pleased. The change is awsome



Just one more thing!



a) Did you use a grinder for the sanding or by hand? A 3M distributor ask me 350 € for the grinder and not sure if it worth



b) Where do you usually purchase your chemicals USA or Europe? Shipping cost are one of my concerns



Bye
 
That lite sanding was done by hand. You can buy an electric sander from Bosch or something for less than € 100, and you can also use it as a dual action polisher.



The 3M line can be found in any paint products shop locally. I also have access localy to a few Meguiars products like DACP and Farecla products. Also have here Menzerna and Einszett. Part from these, all the rest I bought from the US.



It would be interesting if you looked for what you can buy there, in Spain. I thought about going one of this days to Vigo and see if you guys have more products than we do.



At least I know you have AutoGlym there.
 
The polishing step after it is still recommended, it'll bring more clarity and reflectivity to the finish. If done with a rotary, one should be using a finish pad at a very low speed moving slowly on the surface.



Good advice (plus it replaces the paint (resin) oils



Autoglym cutting polish would be a good 'finisher' after the compound
 
Thanks for advise jvg



I will try to get one of these Bosh grinder. I hope 3M discs will suite the grinder.



Yesterday, rainy in Madrid, so nice day to test new things, I purchased 3M sandpaper 2000 grain and tried to do the same than you on the 730D. I applied a lubricant ( Sonax glass cleaner) with sandpaper and the result was terrible. I SCRATCHED my own car paint, AHHH. My heart started to beat quicker. It looked as If I wouldn´t have used lubricant. The scratches showed the exact criss cross layout I did.



After that shock I used the 3M fast cut compound and with patience achived to removed "the disaster". Lack of experience on my side, of course. I will send you pictures when finishing to configurate my new high speed internet connection.



Do you know what I did wrong? Any tip?



In Spain, Detailing is starting so no so many brands are available. Most people neglect their nice cars, and the ones who care are not proficient in car care purchase based only on price.



We have AutoGlym in big shopping centers (El Corte Inglés, since 3 months). Autobrillante is the distributor. It´s expensive but offer great service. I often buy them tools and some chemicals. In car especialized shops (Aurgi, Feuvert) you would find Holst, Krafft and some other not well known brands. I use also Sonax, but I have to buy it directly from Germany.



I have good friends in Vigo. Nice place. I use to go there each 3-4 months. Last summer when there, I visited Porto. Lovely place and lovely wineries.
 
Hey Aqua, you should have soaked that sanding paper in water for at least half hour. Then, as you use it on the surface, spray it often with watter, and clean the surface often also. Start slowly, clean and inspect. If the defects weren't yet removed, work it a little more, and so on.



I've contacted Autobrilante a couple of times trough email, asking who sells AutoGlym in Portugal but they never replied my emails :(.

We have a Sonax distributor in Porto, also.
 
Hi jgv



Many thanks for the advice. I did NOT soaked sandpaper before using. AHHH.... I will try it this afternoon following your instructions. I cross my fingers



!! I HATE SWRILS !!



I just have ask Israel, my AutoGlym contact in Madrid. He tells me Autobrillante is the offical distributor in Spain & Portugal and It has 2 agents in Portugal. He will find out the phone number of the closest agent to Aveiro and I will post it to you.



Bye
 
Hey jgv



I have just followed your instructions and all went wonderful. I attach some pictures of the progress on my hood.



The process was:



1) Wet sanding 2000 grit



2) 3M Fine cut Compound. 800 rpm with buffer and closed cell foam pad



3) 3M Machine Polish. 1000 rpm. Finishing foam white pad.



The result was quite good



Sorry but the pictures are more than 1MB. I will try to low the size.
 
Heyy JGV



By the way, what is the difference between 3M 2000 or 3000 foam and the 3M 2000 sandpaper?



I never heard before this "foam"



When wet sanding with 3M 2000 grit sandpaper, even with lots of lubrication, the result (just after sanding) looks more haze than in your pictures.



Today I am going to compound a 1 year old Jaguar deep swirled by car wash rolls. But I am a little afraid of wet sand it. Could it be safer to use a wool pad 800 rpm instead of wet sanding?



Thanks foe your advise



Bye
 
Hi there



The abrasive foams are meant to be used for small repairs mostly, and the sanding paper is used with sanding blocks.



In that Jag, I'd start with a foam cutting pad and something like 3M Fine Cut Compound. I'm sure that with a little patience most swirls from a 1 yo car can be removed. The wool pad is supposed to be worked at higher speeds to create heat fast enough to break down the compound, though it introduces new finer swirls that are also hard to remove. I don't use wool pads, just the foam ones.



Good luck, and if you can take some pics :wavey
 
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