Swirl finder lights-lumens?

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imported_fishbonezken

New member
How much lumens is required for a flashlight to be bright enough to be able to find swirls?

I've done a search for the



Brinkmann Maxfire Dual Xenon Spotlight. - 135 lumens



Do I need that much lumens? or Can I opt for other flashlights? because the Brinkmann is not available in my area.



I'm looking at Pelican, Maglite, Inova and Surefire



Maglite's AA flashlight has about 15 lumens(Special Options > > Mag Instrument, Inc. - Manufacturer of the Maglite® Flashlight)



Pelican's Mitylite 2300 has about 8 lumens

(Pelican™Â Products MityLiteâ„¢ 2300)



is 8 lumens sufficient to find swirls?...or do I need...:bolt 135 from the Brinkmann
 
I find the color of the light is more important than the output, I like incandesant, metal halide is better, but it = teh moneys
 
I have the (4) D cell maglite. I've tried it for a swirl finder and didn't have any luck at all. It's listed at 122.1 lumens. One of these days I'm going to have to get a Brinkmann.
 
Surefire works good too, but they are expensive and burn through batteries quickly. Brinkmann is the best bet-order it online. Maglite did not work for me-just like a regular flashlight. Or you can get the halogens on a stand from Sears, but then that is not portable.
 
If you're looking for something small and portable just to find swirls and judge paint condition the Brinkmann Dual Xenon is really the way to go. It shows everything. I have a 1200 watt halogen work light that does not show swirls as effectively.



Just get it on Amazon.com. It's $30 on there and if you apply for an Amazon.com credit card you get $30 off your first order. So, all you have to do is pay shipping.
 
fishbonezken said:
carn00bie,

sry for being a noob, what colour is incandesant and metal halide?

so it doesn't have anything to do with how bright it is?
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The appearance of the light emitted from a source is called it's Color Temperature and is usually measured in degrees Kelvin (K).



So 3000K or is considered warm and has more of a yellow tint (like halogens) while on the other end Bright Daylight is up around 5000K (like the HID or metal halide).



I've been searching for the one light that fit's all but haven't found it yet. Halogens put out a lot of light on the cheap and are great for spotting scratches and deep swirls. But as I move towards finishing a panel the halogens don't show the buffer swirls, or even wash swirls as well as the lights at the gas station let's say.



MorBiD
 
If you get any high-output flashlight with a Xenon bulb, it will perform the same or better than the Brinkmann, which really is nothing special. Xenon bulbs is incandescent like Halogen or Krypton bulbs (krypton is e.g. used in Maglites). The xenon bulbs used in flashlights will have a slighly yellow hue, not as much as halogen or krypton though.



You could take a look at e.g.: Pelican M6. Streamlight TL-2. Surefire C2, G2 or M2. Wolf-eyes 6PX/6TX. If you get a 2 cell Lithium powered Xenon flashlight it will have higher output than even the 4D cell Maglite, plus a more uniform beam pattern, I don't know if this matters for swirl finding but it's something to note.



I ended up getting a Wolf-Eyes 6TX myself, in a rechargeable version with a diferent battery and bulb (3.7V vs 6V), that actually has an even higher output, plus I don't have to change the battery. I don't think you'd need that much light, to be able to find swirls though.
 
FWIW none of my SureFire flashlights work all that great for swirl spotting, not even my M4. Good enough to use when checking out a potential purchase but not good enough for regular detailing applications.



I do my best inspecting with an old-fashioned incandescent trouble light that I got a Lowe's. I got the high-wattage one (I use 200-300w bulbs) but a lower power one will work OK too. Even the bare 60W bulbs in the ceiling of my one garage work great, so it's not just about brightness. IIRC it's also about *contrast*, which allows you to see the variations such as marring.



You're after, IIRC, "point-source illumination", which others (more knowledgeable than myself) have posted about. Use this type of light in an otherwise dark shop and you should be able to spot everything. I no longer have any unpleasant surprises at the gas station/parking lots at night, even on silver.



Oh, and while we keep a scad of multi-D cell MagLites around, IMO they only have two things really going for them: 1) they always work, even after a lot of abuse; 2) they make decent bludgeons ;)
 
I highly appreaciate all of your proffessional(<- correct spelling?) inputs.

So it's not about the brighter light the more visible the swirls?



I have a friend who uses an InovaT2 and the color of the light illuminated was almost like whitish blue. When it was shone onto my white paint, we both could CLEARLY see all the pittings, swirls and defects in the paint.



The ceiling lamps in the parking basement could show that too, but with his Inova T2 the radius of the paint defect around the centre of the light was larger, hence being able to see more defects.



Accumulator, you talked about contrast, but the color of his light was whitish blue, and my car's paint is white, not much of a cnotrast, yet, the defects are so clearly seen.





The Inova T2 has only 40 lumens btw. 3 times less than the Brinkmann Dual Xenon. yet again, defects shine righ tback at you.
 
I tried the Brinkman copy cat sold at Biglots -Superex dual halogen 1.25M candle. It's bright and cheap - $13.00. But not good at finding those swirls. The hunt continues.
 
fishbonezken said:
So it's not about the brighter light the more visible the swirls?
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Well, it's not *only* about how bright the light is...



I have a friend who uses an InovaT2 and the color of the light illuminated was almost like whitish blue. When it was shone onto my white paint, we both could CLEARLY see all the pittings, swirls and defects in the paint...
Click to expand...



Then there you have it, at least to some extent. Whether it'll work for general (detailing) use or only for quick, limited-area inspections is another matter. That sounds sorta like the way my SureFires work when I inspect cars that I'm considering buying.



The ceiling lamps in the parking basement could show that too, but with his Inova T2 the radius of the paint defect around the centre of the light was larger, hence being able to see more defects...
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Yeah, how the light hits the surface, how *much* surface it illuminates...all sorts of things factor into this.



Accumulator, you talked about contrast, but the color of his light was whitish blue, and my car's paint is white, not much of a cnotrast, yet, the defects are so clearly seen...
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As I understand it (and my understanding is far from complete :o ) the "contrast" isn't really about the color of the light vs. the color of the paint. It's about how some light shows variations in the surface (e.g., marring, orangepeel) and some light doesn't. My painter has a Brinkman-like light from 3M (or at least they put their name on it, dunno who makes it) that is *great* for showing overall texture variations and *true* colors; he uses it to make sure he's matched the original texture/orangepeel and also to ensure that his color-match is perfect. I've used it quite a bit recently and it's great for that. But it doesn't always show marring as readily as I would've expected (I'm using it on the Jag, the flaws on which I know well).



Oh, and Bill D once explained how white is a weird color when it comes to spotting marring. His Cadillac is white, and he sees stuff on *it* under fluourescent lights, those same flourescents don't show marring much at all on any other color. He was really surprised when his incandescent swirl-spotting light just didn't show stuff on white; it works great for him on every other color. This stuff isn't quite as simple as one might expect (or like ;) ).



The Inova T2 has only 40 lumens .. yet again, defects shine righ tback at you.
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I'd sure take one of those along the next time you're inspecting a car some place!
 
Accumulator said:
...My painter has a Brinkman-like light from 3M (or at least they put their name on it, dunno who makes it) that is *great* for showing overall texture variations and *true* colors; he uses it to make sure he's matched the original texture/orangepeel and also to ensure that his color-match is perfect. I've used it quite a bit recently and it's great for that. But it doesn't always show marring as readily as I would've expected (I'm using it on the Jag, the flaws on which I know well).
Click to expand...



Accumulator:



I buy a lot of 3M's stuff for Autobody and re-finishing and saw that light on their website. Kinda pricey though so I wanted to get some feedback on how well it works first.



I probably would use it just like you said your painter does and not for detailing. Do you think it's a good buy?



MorBiD
 
I am definitely wrong person to talk on the subject so following are my thoughts (not an opinion, nor knowledge, nor experience):



I suspect color/temperature (wavelength) of the light's source are #1 thing that matters. I would assume one wants something as close to bright daylight (sun). Everything else would give a "hue". I would assume that is what Accumulator means under "contrast". Think of driving lamps. 4500K or so, that crisp white / blue, is what gives sharpest background.



Next thing I would supsect that matters is width of the beam. Wider it goes wider reflection will be dispersing and more flaws will be hidden.



Only last thing I would suspect is intensity (lumens). You don't want it too low nor too high. Too bright sun creates shine and hides swirls when surface reflects.
 
MorBid- After the job he did on the Jag I sure wouldn't second-guess this new painter I've found! He's happy with the light and it seemed to work well for me when I was inspecting his work. Admitedly I haven't used it much (only twice) and I've never used the Brinkman for comparison. I dunno...I don't think you'd go wrong with it but I dunno if it's cheap enough to be an OK gamble :nixweiss



Sorry, I guess I'm usually a bit more inclined to spend other people's money but I just don't know if it'd beat the Brinkman/etc. or not. I want to think it *will* be OK, after all 3M oughta have some decent criteria in play when they decide whose light they're gonna stick their name on for this sort of thing. I *do* think that if my painter thought he could find a better light he'd get it, he's very serious about how his work turns out.
 
I don't have much knowledge on lighting, but from my experiences the brickmann I have don't seem to work well on light color cars or ones with alot of mettalic to them unless the swirls in the paint are real bad. If not i don't seem to pick up anything on thoses paints with it. On the other hand i have 3 incandecents on the ceiling of my garage as my main lighting out there and they show everything. If you get down and look at the paint at different angles, the incandecent bulbs on my ceiling will pick everything up to the point that it gets frustrating because no matter how much polishing i do i can't seem to get the paint 100% mar free. Not sure if i am using the brickman wrong or something, but when i am looking for marring I use the incandecents on the ceiling at different angles to examine my paint.
 
SR77- thanks for posting that! Since your experiences with incandescents mirror mine, I find your (disappointing) Brinkman experience very informative. That's what I was afraid I'd discover and it's why I've put off buying one. I appreciate the heads-up, think I'll delay that Brinkman purchase for a little longer ;)



Heh heh, your "three incandescents" sounds just like my shop, where I have three over each of the work bays :D I sympathize with how unforgiving they are, I only try for perfection (under those lights) on cars that I know have a *lot* of clear to work with.
 
Just this week I bought myself a Christmas present ...... Streamlight UltraStinger flashlight with 295 lumens. I will definitely check and see if works for paint inspection. I suspect that between this flashlight and some incandescent lights I should be able to see all.
 
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