suggestions for beginner

[dubber]

i need some guidance.

i still consider myself a beginner when it comes to detailing.

last year i bought a PC, some LC CCS pads, and HD Uno and Poxy.

i attempted my first "detail" on a VW jetta and then a volvo xc90, and i was borderline satisfied. i dont know if it was my techique, products, or just a case of hard clearcoat, but i was only able to get rid of 75% of marring/scratches.

this year i would like to do a major paint ressurection on my vw passat. the paint has alot of marring, scratches, rids, hallograms, and so on.

i was planning on getting m105 and m205, but the more i read i learn that they do not finish very well.

so i need suggestions on some easy to use products that finish well that arent that hard to use.

should i go with M105/205 or should i stick to the HD products i have?

or is there another product(s) i can use with ease that is almost fool proof?



thnaks

 

[LeMarque]

I'm sure others with more experience will answer, but VW paint (clear coat) is VERY hard and therefore difficult to correct. RIDS and scratches - maybe sanding first and/or SurBuf pads. A PDG would come in very handy.

 

[Accumulator]

..RIDS and scratches - maybe sanding first and/or SurBuf pads..

Better, not..too many people ruin their paint via wetsanding (just another thread about it today!) and SurBuf pads aren't on my list of favorites either, though some people do like 'em.



I trust that you know I'm not :argue or anything....

i need some guidance...i was only able to get rid of 75% of marring/scratches...

Better to leave some marring than to go too far and ruin the paint, especially thinking long-term.

..this year i would like to do a major paint ressurection on my vw passat. the paint has alot of marring, scratches, rids, hallograms, and so on.

i was planning on getting m105 and m205, but the more i read i learn that they do not finish very well...

The M105 oughta work fine for the aggressive work, especially if you use it with Meguiar's MF Cutting Disks (get a few as you need to clean pads/disks *VERY* often with M105).



You can use the Uno for an intermediate step, to clear up what the M105 leaves.



Get some HD Polish or Speed for the final finishing polish.



That oughta work fine, and note that most of my vehicles have hard clear and I'm all about ease-of-use. Products have to be, uhm... Accumulator-proof or I won't use/recommend them (hence my thumbs-down on SurBuf pads).

 

[dubber]

Better, not..too many people ruin their paint via wetsanding (just another thread about it today!) and SurBuf pads aren't on my list of favorites either, though some people do like 'em.



I trust that you know I'm not :argue or anything....







Better to leave some marring than to go too far and ruin the paint, especially thinking long-term.









The M105 oughta work fine for the aggressive work, especially if you use it with Meguiar's MF Cutting Disks (get a few as you need to clean pads/disks *VERY* often with M105).



You can use the Uno for an intermediate step, to clear up what the M105 leaves.



Get some HD Polish or Speed for the final finishing polish.



That oughta work fine, and note that most of my vehicles have hard clear and I'm all about ease-of-use. Products have to be, uhm... Accumulator-proof or I won't use/recommend them (hence my thumbs-down on SurBuf pads).

thnaks

[/QUOTE]

i was waiting for you to chime in :tongue2:

i will try 105 with some more aggresive pads (megs mf), alond with uno for intermideiate.

can you recommend somehting as a final stage, as HD products are very hard to get here in canada.

 

[Accumulator]

...can you recommend somehting as a final stage, as HD products are very hard to get here in canada.

Hmmm...not sure what to say as I don't know what you can get.



I myself am a big fan of 1Z's High Gloss, from their Pro line, but that might be hard to get too.



What about the Uno on a softer pad? It doesn't work well for finishing *for me*, but maybe that's just me :nixweiss

 

[dubber]

any thoughts on Optimum Poli-Seal, Griot's Garage Best Show Wax, Meguiar's Ultimate Liquid Wax, or Z-AIO All-in-one

 

[LeMarque]

Better, not..too many people ruin their paint via wetsanding (just another thread about it today!) and SurBuf pads aren't on my list of favorites either, though some people do like 'em.



I trust that you know I'm not :argue or anything....



That oughta work fine, and note that most of my vehicles have hard clear and I'm all about ease-of-use. Products have to be, uhm... Accumulator-proof or I won't use/recommend them (hence my thumbs-down on SurBuf pads).

Guess I shot from the hip on the sanding. Just a matter of 'transference'. I'm waiting for something heavily swirled/scratched that I can take the Buflex type discs to. I used them once on a Land Cruiser that was trashed and it made the job go alot quicker:











And just curious. Besides the marring, what don't you like about SurBuf?

 

[Accumulator]

LeMarque- No real :argue between us on this one, I wetsand quite a bit too, preferring it over really aggressive compounding. But when it comes to advice to others I put it in the "don't try this at home, kids!" category...you know, "if you have to ask, you're not likely to pull it off".



The SurBufs didn't correct as well for me as I'd expected/wanted, so it wasn't worth the scoured-up finish :nixweiss I know they work swell for a lot of people, but again, I won't recommend stuff that doesn't work well for *me*, that "Accumulator-proof" test for user-friendliness might set the bar pretty high, but if it works easily for *me* right off the bat then I'm pretty confident it's OK for most anybody.



dubber- Skip that Griot's BOS wax, I tried and tried and tried to like it, but IMO it's simply [crappy] stuff and I look back now and think I was a dummy for going through so many bottles of it Just *so* many better options, including stuff like the others you asked about. Out of those others, I've only used the ZAIO and I do like it.

 

[dubber]

i am back with some feedback.

i worked on a black bmw (not jet black) and used M105 and M205.

i used the m105 with a LC Orange pad and i was not able to get rid of all the scratches. i did many passes and varried with light to heavy pressure.

as i am getting closer to having time to do my passat, i am wondering what pads would do the trick. LC Yellow, Meguiar's 5" DA Microfiber Cutting Disc, or Lake Country 6.5" Purple Foamed Wool Polishing/Buffing Pad?

should i try a more aggresive compound, or should i stick to M105.

 

[pwaug]

Are you still using the LC CCS pads? I've never used them, but have read many posts that flat pads will give you the best correction. I've had great results with 5" Buff and Shine pads and HD Polishes on my Passat with a GG DA, had to use speed 6 and my paint wasn't in too bad shape.

 

[DM101]

any thoughts on Optimum Poli-Seal, Griot's Garage Best Show Wax, Meguiar's Ultimate Liquid Wax, or Z-AIO All-in-one

Meg. ultimate wax is very good for the price. ZAIO is a good AIO. But Poxy would be my choice.

 

[dubber]

Are you still using the LC CCS pads? I've never used them, but have read many posts that flat pads will give you the best correction. I've had great results with 5" Buff and Shine pads and HD Polishes on my Passat with a GG DA, had to use speed 6 and my paint wasn't in too bad shape.

i am still using LC pads. my orange pad however was not flat. does flat vs contoured make that big of a difference correction wise?

i was looking at an alternative to LC pads, but here in Canada we dont have must selection. ordering from US can be a hefty price hike.



as far as ive seen we can get LC, Surbuf, and Megs

 

[Accumulator]

dubber- The contoured pad usually works OK, at least it's not terrible like the dimpled ones are.



What size pad did you use? I would *NOT* use anything larger than 5.5" with that machine. Actually, if it's the older-model PC I would use 3" or 4" pads for serious correction (yeah, it can take a long time that way).



I would absolutely use the Meguiar's MF Cutting Disks that I recommended before.



I would *NOT* use yellow foam LC cutting pads or the SurBuf. The PFW are gonna be way too big and I prefer the MF Cutting Disks anyhow.



I haven't tried it yet, but the new Meguiar's compound (M101 maybe?) supposedly cuts better. BUT...I've always been able to do anything safe-to-do with M105. BUT#2... I was using machines more powerful than the older-model PC (GG 6", GG 3" pneumatic, Flex 3401).



Final thought- this stuff can simply take a long time in some cases. It's entirely possible to spend an entire afternoon on one panel, just depends what you're trying to do and what machine you're using.

 

[dubber]

dubber- The contoured pad usually works OK, at least it's not terrible like the dimpled ones are.



What size pad did you use? I would *NOT* use anything larger than 5.5" with that machine. Actually, if it's the older-model PC I would use 3" or 4" pads for serious correction (yeah, it can take a long time that way).



I would absolutely use the Meguiar's MF Cutting Disks that I recommended before.



I would *NOT* use yellow foam LC cutting pads or the SurBuf. The PFW are gonna be way too big and I prefer the MF Cutting Disks anyhow.



I haven't tried it yet, but the new Meguiar's compound (M101 maybe?) supposedly cuts better. BUT...I've always been able to do anything safe-to-do with M105. BUT#2... I was using machines more powerful than the older-model PC (GG 6", GG 3" pneumatic, Flex 3401).



Final thought- this stuff can simply take a long time in some cases. It's entirely possible to spend an entire afternoon on one panel, just depends what you're trying to do and what machine you're using.

these are the pads i am using, however they do not have the flat edges, mine are contoured.

they are 5.5" and i am using the PC 7424XP.

i will definately try the meguiar's MF cutting disks. Will they be a direct fit to my PC or will i need a different backing plate?



how many should i be looking to get for a passat wagon?

should i only use the cutting MF disk, or should i get the polishing MF disks as well. in that case should i totally omit the LC pads? or should i still finish with a black pad?

 

[Inzane]

I would *NOT* use yellow foam LC cutting pads

Just curious, what's the reason for that comment? (I have an "old" PC 7424, from circa ~2004). Thanks.

 

[Accumulator]

these are the pads i am using, however they do not have the flat edges, mine are contoured.

they are 5.5" and i am using the PC 7424XP...

Thanks for the additional info. Glad to hear you have the XP model PC.



I simply *hate* those dimpled pads! Product (and cut-off clear) builds up in the dimples and it's too hard for me to get them primed/reloaded uniformly. Nothing like a clump of dried M105 in a dimple to ruin your day.

..i will definately try the meguiar's MF cutting disks. Will they be a direct fit to my PC or will i need a different backing plate?

Can't say for sure as I don't use pads in the 5-5.5" range :nixweiss Even with the 6" ones, I don't know what to recommend; I had to pick-and-choose between my various backing plates until I found the one that fit just right (you want it to go pretty close to the edge of the pad).



You oughta be able to figure out what combo you'll need either by checking out the place where you buy them (common sense applies...) or by doing a dreaded search here and seeing what people recommend.



I'd probably call up BuffDaddy/Kevin Brown and buy (from him) whatever he recommends. He's done quite a bit of research into this exact topic.

how many should i be looking to get for a passat wagon?

Depends...do you have an air compressor to clean them? If so, you might get by with two if neither one self-destructs. I myself would buy four just to have a spare or two.



If you have to clean them without compressed air, it can be a big PIA so I'd want more of 'em.

should i only use the cutting MF disk, or should i get the polishing MF disks as well. in that case should i totally omit the LC pads? or should i still finish with a black pad?

I've never used the MF finishing disk, so I can't really help there. I use foam pads for everything besides the serious correction.



IMO going from the MF Cutting Disk to a black LC pad would be too much of a jump. I generally use a medium polishing pad (Griot's orange, or Cyclo green, or Meguiar's 8006) as an intermediate step.

Just curious, what's the reason for that comment? (I have an "old" PC 7424, from circa ~2004). Thanks.

While I'm all about doing whatever's possible to up the aggressiveness of the 7424, IMO the yellow LC pads don't cut nearly as well as MF Cutting Disks and they leave a crappy finish. I used them for ages just like everybody did, but when I got away from them, well....I've *stayed* away from them.



I can think of a couple situations where I might want them...terrible oxidation, trashed single-stage...but generally mine just sit there unused.



FWIW, to get decent correction (and I use "decent" loosely!) out of my 7424, I had to step down to 3-4" pads. The little 3" MF Cutting Disks can do some work with that machine! And the 7424/4" green Cyclo pad combo was aggressive enough to kill the clear on my old minivan when I got too aggressive, had to get the panel repainted...note that's the worst paint damage I've ever inflicted, never came close to anything like that even with a rotary or when wetsanding.

 

[dubber]

thanks for taking your time to help me out with feedback, much appreciated.

i will try the MF cutting pads (at least 4), and follow that with an orange LC (non-dimple) pad. Griot's,Cyclo,or Meguiar's pads are either not available in canada or they do not come in 5" size. unless i am able to swap out my backing plate to accomodate the 3" or 6" pads from griot's. if possible, would the PC be as effective with smaller backing plate/pad?



also, i do not have a air compressor to clean my pads. how much psi is actually needed to make AC cleaning effective? would canned compressed air be an alternative?

would an air compressor be able to clean foam pads as well? i would think the air would just lodge the particles deeper in the "honeycomb"?



thanks for the help again

 

[Accumulator]

thanks for taking your time to help me out with feedback, much appreciated.

i will try the MF cutting pads (at least 4), and follow that with an orange LC (non-dimple) pad. Griot's,Cyclo,or Meguiar's pads are either not available in canada or they do not come in 5" size. unless i am able to swap out my backing plate to accomodate the 3" or 6" pads from griot's...

Understood about the availability, just mentioned those so you'd have a general idea of what might work.

if possible, would the PC be as effective with smaller backing plate/pad?

The PC is much more effective with the smaller plate/pad. Yeah, you cover a smaller area, but at least the correction is likely to happen.

also, i do not have a air compressor to clean my pads. how much psi is actually needed to make AC cleaning effective? would canned compressed air be an alternative?

I'm spoiled by having my various setups, so I can't say what's the required minimum. I doubt the canned air would do it though.



Cheap compressors are pretty inexpensive, but folks get by without them (don't know how though, I'm always using mine for something).

would an air compressor be able to clean foam pads as well? i would think the air would just lodge the particles deeper in the "honeycomb"?

At some point that *is* what happens, but it still works pretty well. You can blow the [stuff] out "towards the outer edge of the pad" well enough for it to be a viable approach (until it's not, then it's time to change pads or scrub out the soiled one).