Starting to hate black

J

jvcn

New member
Just did a first detail with PC on a "new" used 1995 LS400 in Ebony Teal. DACPd with Sonus Orange at speed 5 or 6 till my arms hurt, then used either ColorX or VM with Sonus Green pad before giving up. Looks good in pics, but lots of swirls and water spots all over that I couldn't seem to touch. Going over to see Brad the moderator tomorrow. Perhaps he'll put me on the right track. Until then not even going to try sealant or wax.



I can't seem to get a good photo to show the swirls.



http://autopia.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9968
 
hmm do they look reduced? May be some marring left from the dacp that sometimes shows up on black. Perhaps try a final polish with a light polishing pad.
 
I think you may have induced some marring into the paint. Lexus black is not clearcoated and is usually soft enough to get most defects out by hand.



I'm sure Brad can figure it out pretty quickly though.
 
I doubt I induced marring, since many very specific swirls seemed at best minimized whether by PC or by hand. But then, you're right. I'm hoping Brad will set me straight.



And this isn't Onyx Black. It's Ebony Teal Pearl. There does seem to be a clearcoat.
 
Oh, okay. I wasn't very clear on the original condition of the paint.



BTW, I am beginning to hate black because I am way too anal about my car and black shows EVERYTHING!
 
Most definately. I'm at the point where I almost hate to do the outside of my car because 1. its black, and 2. I'm a perfectionist and it drives me up a tree not to be able to get the imperfections out. If you have a black car, its not going to look the way you want it to all the time unless you only drive it on weekends when its bright and sunny out.
 
I detailed a silver car today and it was so much easier than my black car, its almost as if the paint is perfect.
 
He he, that's why *I* hate silver, I can't see a thing I'm polishing and have no idea what progress i made :mad:
 
4 cars ALL BLACK don't buy a black car if you cant't hack it.Black is a lot of work but the results makes it worth while.I can't tell you how many people stop me or say somthing like is that car new and ita 4 years old
 
Black is all well and good provided you never get any swirl marks. If you buy the vehicle new, and take all the precautions to prevent swirl marks, nothing beats black when it's polished nicely. Depending on the severity, sometimes swirl marks in black can be nearly impossible to completely polish out. Usually when swirl marks are polished, we don't actually get rid of them, we just polish the edges of them until they no longer reflect much light and appear to be gone. Black is very unforgiving and you must practically polish the entire thing out to get rid of them.



The products you are using are very light polishes, and are not suitable for removing deep swirls. It was a good idea to try them first, but if they don't work you'll need to go with something more aggressive. I would try something in a slightly heavier cut like Pinnacle swirl remover, or #9 with a white or green pad. If this still doesn't touch it, go with #2 and an orange pad. If you find you have to go with a medium to heavy cut product, you may want to consider doing those by hand. Always finish up with some light polish and a blue pad.



I've had many black vehicles before, and I liked them. Today my vehicle is a metallic orange. It's a great color because it doesn't show swirl marks hardly at all and it still looks great when highly polished.
 
Pondscum,



Were you talking to me? I used DACP with orange cutting pad first -- which is far stronger than #9. I even used #2 in spots.



And I think it's inefficient to buy a new Lexus, when they're so reliable and the depreciation is so nice and steep. And I can't justify 10s of thousands more for a nice paint job (although to an Autopian, I realize that argument is tempting. :) ) Anyway, I will try to minimize the damage, and enjoy my used, very good condition cruiser.
 
I want a black car, because the paint can look so outstanding if properly detailed and maintained. I have a white car now, and the paint will still look clean after a week or two without a wash, and salt doesn't show much, dirt doesn't show, dust doesn't show, etc...

I just hate how you can't see the products on the car after they've been applied. I use a lot more product on light cars because I want to make sure I covered every spot. On black the wax residue shows very easily.
 
Ok. I just spent a very instructive few hours at Brad's place.



I learned that to get rid of many of my scratches and etched in water spots I have to really work the abrasive in as s l o w l y as possible. Sometimes it felt like I was trying to burn the paint with the orange pad. In general I had to work on an area of less than 1 sq foot at a time. Working together on the trunk alone took the both of us about 2 hours total. [Of course, I think I "helped" Brad the same way my 22 month old son "helps" me work on my projects.]



I can see that correcting the flaws on the paint will be the work of many weekends for me.



We also got to compare DACP, 3mPI-III RC and 1Z ultra. On my car we agreed that the 3m was best. Megs #2 was also useful at times. And you have to use a lot of product -- the opposite of final polish or sealant.



I want to publicly acknowledge Brad's kind aid and his awesome skill at detailing. And thanks also to everyone who offered suggestions.



I only wish there were someone I trusted to do the prep work here for me as it's tedious. And with the winter almost here, I'd rather be playing with LSPs. Still I now know what must be done.



I also have hope that the paint will look good someday.



And it's not just black! It's obviously kinda green as well. (at least after the prep)
 
Glad (but not surprised) to hear Brad was able to get you on track.



That must be some pretty serious marring if you had to use any Meg's #2! And yes, this stuff can take a very, very, long time.



Between the 3M PI-III and the 1Z Ultra, what tipped the scales in favor of the PI-III? Just curious, I use 'em both...
 
I was surprised that the #2 seemed only a tad more aggressive than the 3M. It was quicker at getting some etched water spots and a bad scratch or two But mostly we stayed away from it.



In general, both 3M and DACP just seemed better to work in longer, and it cleaned up a lot of problems faster than 1ZUP, while leaving a mild, but even haze that cleaned up with an easy pass of #80.



I also kept thinking -- there must be a slightly quicker way to do this. Do you really need 3-4 passes with 3MPI-III? Maybe a Megs Red cutting pad? (You know, the one Megs says NOT to use with a PC.) What do you think?
 
I used the maroon pad via PC several times. Not a big deal. That's interesting, I found 1z UP to help start cleaning up problems faster/better than the DACP or 3m :nixweiss. No doubt, you must follow with something milder to clean up it's own maring.
 
A finely maintained black car will beat any other color any given day...hands down! Silver and white cars just can't compete to the freshly polished look of black.
 
You're right about the DACP. I've never used the stuff and I always thought it was at the lower end of the scale. I guess that explains why you were using it with an orange pad. For stuff that bad I use 1Z Ultra. I'm suprised it didn't work so well for you. You must have had some pretty deep stuff. At that level of polish, I only use the stuff by hand. If you have someone that has quite a bit of experience, then they may choose to use a machine. But if you're talking about using something that agressive and an even more agressive pad, you may be in trouble. All it takes is one slip going over a corner and your clearcoat can be gone in no time.



Now that you've learned how to fix it, do you still hate black? (or greenish black).
 
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