Spot Buffs Kit - WARNING!!

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Mikeyc

Mikeyc

TheDetailingHandBook.com
So, I recently purchased a Spot Buffs kit from Autogeek. Basically, it's a kit of 4" pads with a velcro backing plate and two adapters. One adapter is so that you can use the backing plate with a drill and the other is to use the plate with a PC. I thought the kit would be great for hard to reach areas and for doing paint correction as the smaller pad facilitates that.

The first time I used the kit I used the drill adapter. I wasn't terribly impressed with the results, but I felt it was because my cordless drill wasn't powerful enough. So, the next time I used it I decided to try the PC adapter. I had some light scratches on my hood that I wanted to buff out. This was the result:
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What happened was as soon as the speed was turned to 5 the adapter
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spun out of the backing plate and went right into the hood. I had to have the whole hood re-painted to the tune of just over $500.

I wrote Autogeek an email describing the problem. Because they are an AWESOME vendor they forwarded my email to Lake Country who manufacture the kit.

Lake Country on the other hand was not awesome. After sending them some pictures and having some email correspondence with one of their representatives they decided they would not be doing anything for me. Their reason being that the design of their kit should prevent this from happening. Well designs are all well and good, but reality is another matter. Because of this I will NEVER EVER buy another Lake Country product. Their product failed when I used it and damaged my car. However, they are not willing to stand behind it. I will however continue to shop with Autogeek, because they handled this situation as it should have been handled.
 
PEI Detail said:
While we should be careful about writing off products, a warning is helpful.
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Absolutely, I invite anyone who wants to purchase LC products to do so. I just want people to know that when one of their products went wrong for me they were not willing to reimburse me for damages.
 
Curious to what the backing plate looked like. Below is my 4" pad I got from TOL. Just wondering if same backing plate or design.


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PhaRO said:
Curious to what the backing plate looked like. Below is my 4" pad I got from TOL. Just wondering if same backing plate or design.
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The backing plate I got looks different than yours. If you click on the link I put in my first post you can see the kit and it's components.

The backing plate that comes with the SB kit is different from other backing plates in that it is kind of a universal BP. The BP essentially has a screw in socket in the back and depending on what machine you're using you screw a different adapter in between the machine and the BP.

I ordered a new BP from Autogeek with a fixed screw post so that I can continue to use these pads without fear of further damage.
 
It looks like to me that Lake Country isn't reimbursing because their product didn't technically fail. Some how the adaptor wasn't tight- whether you didnt tighten it enough or it became loose who knows. Sorry for your damages and the price of a respray but accidents happen. I don't think Porter Cable would pick up a damage bill if the removable handle (if you weren't using it)unscrewed from vibration and damaged the paint or something like that. I like Lake Country Pads and all but this could also show how good our sponsors are on here in comparasin to your encounter with them,
 
budman3 said:
It looks like to me that Lake Country isn't reimbursing because their product didn't technically fail. Some how the adaptor wasn't tight- whether you didnt tighten it enough or it became loose who knows. Sorry for your damages and the price of a respray but accidents happen. I don't think Porter Cable would pick up a damage bill if the removable handle (if you weren't using it)unscrewed from vibration and damaged the paint or something like that. I like Lake Country Pads and all but this could also show how good our sponsors are on here in comparasin to your encounter with them,
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The adapter was screwed in as tight as I could get it using my hands. According to LC the adapter should only get tighter with use due to the direction the PC orbits. I'm not a person who takes putting anything near my paint lightly. So, I can assure you the adapter was not loosely spun on haphazardly.

Also, how can you say this is not product failure that the company is responsible for? If a company designs a product that has a joint which is screwed together and it comes apart during use that is poor product design. Product design is the responsability of the company. If a screwed together joint won't hold together during use then it shouldn't be designed as a screwed together joint. I'm not an engineer. I can't measure the tolerance of each piece of a product. I'm rather insulted that you have even insinuated that this was my error. I'm not a complete moron. I think I can manage to successfully screw two pieces together.

If the adapter must be screwed together using a wrench then there should be instructions indicating that. However, the person I spoke with at LC did not indicate that should be a factor.

All I know is I've heard 100 stories about how great the customer service is at Edgepads. I've read many posts about where the adapter has failed (by unscrewing) or pads have come apart and they have always re-imbursed and/or replaced for their customers. From now I'm buying their pads.
 
For what its worth I still would have used a wrench to tighten the adaptor on. It has a what looks like a hex for a wrench.But the point here is LC could have made good with something even a refund would have been in order.
 
I'm sorry to hear about the accidental damage that occured. I choose not to offer my own thoughts or opinions but I would like to post a response that was emailed to me from Mr. Eric Dunn of Lake Country Manufacturing so that both parties can present their views.

Here is the email that I received.

Dwayne,

I am writing in regards to a posting on Detail City involving our spot-buff pad kit. and Detail City user Mikeyc writing to me initially using the spot-buff system to do his entire vehicle. This is not the purpose of the system, hence the term "SPOT-BUFF". In Lake Country's defense regarding the issue, I would like to state a couple of facts. First, from the pictures that were sent to me and posted on the forum, the adapter and the backing plate were not defective. They were still in one piece, not cross threaded or broke. Mikeyc has corresponded with me agreeing they were not broke. I have tried duplicating this at the factory and could not. The threads all work in a clockwise position, so when the PC is orbiting, it is moving the same direction as the threads and tightening. If its properly screwed in place with the supplied plastic washer, there should not be a problem at all. In my correspondence with Mikeyc, he has stated that the washer flew off and he couldn't find it. If it was a manufacturing defect, then LCM would be responsible. If its user error, then LCM would not be responsible. From my testing and evaluating the situation and the products, I have concluded this is not a manufacturing error. We manufacture high quality products and will stand by them.
Eric Dunn
Account Manager / Technical Support / Sales
Lake Country Manufacturing
eric@lakecountrymfg.com
(262)-367-8395
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My $0.02

- I once had some lake country pads go wrong, My situation was forwarded to Eric Dunn, and he handled the situation greatly by not only replacing the pad that went defected but also arranged for an extra newly designed pad to be placed in the order. Great Service.

- Secondly I beleive that nothing is perfect in this world and that products can go bad from time to time.

Its unfortunate what happend to your car from the bad kit, could have been one and a million though.

Greg
 
Mikeyc said:
I'm not a complete moron. I think I can manage to successfully screw two pieces together.

If the adapter must be screwed together using a wrench then there should be instructions indicating that. However, the person I spoke with at LC did not indicate that should be a factor.
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The hexagon shaped nut built into that adapter tells me that a wrench should be used to tighten the pieces before use. I'd bet $100 that the right sized wrench would fit that nut perfectly and I don't need instructions to see that clearly. Nevertheless, who wrote the instructions? Was it Autogeek or was it Lake Country Manufacturing?
 
Blinded said:
The hexagon shaped nut built into that adapter tells me that a wrench should be used to tighten the pieces before use. I'd bet $100 that the right sized wrench would fit that nut perfectly and I don't need instructions to see that clearly. Nevertheless, who wrote the instructions? Was it Autogeek or was it Lake Country Manufacturing?
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First, there were no instructions included to the best of my recollection.

If the plate/adapter is designed to tighten as it's used then why did mine spin off? The other end tightened quite well in my PC. Sure, I didn't tighten with a wrench, but were no instructions included to indicate this was necessary. To me this says somewhere something went wrong. Also, I only managed to buff a very small spot before the BP flew off. So please tell me how my thoughts about doing the whole car or not are relevant.

Where is there room for user error in this system anyway? Screw one end in here, screw the other there, attach pad, turn on machine. Sounds pretty simple. If the problem is that the adapter needs to be wrench tightened then IMO it's negligent not to put instructions in the kit indicating this.

I mean seriously I have a garage large enough two hold two cars and extensive shelving. Does this whole thing hinge on a washer which could be anywhere in this area? For all I know the washer could have been the defective part.
 
So, with no instructions included, you just assumed that you could finger tighten the adapter to the machine and also to the backing plate? You did not notice the hexagon shaped nut? Didn't think that was there for a reason?

Who assembled the kit? Was it assembled by Lake Country or by Autogeek?
 
Blinded said:
So, with no instructions included, you just assumed that you could finger tighten the adapter to the machine and also to the backing plate? You did not notice the hexagon shaped nut? Didn't think that was there for a reason?

Who assembled the kit? Was it assembled by Lake Country or by Autogeek?
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How True:yes:

They should have offered some sympathy and asked more questions how you used it. I would definitely tighten anything like this with some sort of tool especially if it did not come with instructions. Who assembled this kit is a real good question and some of the liability should rest on that persons shoulders.
 
Sorry to hear about that, man -- I was planning on using my new Spot Buffs kit this weekend. And after reading this, I did go and check my box, and no, there aren't any instructions regarding tightening, etc. Thanks for the warning, especially for noobs like me who haven't even plugged their PC in for the first time yet.
 
What part caused the damage? The backing plate or the adaptor? What I meant earlier about not product failure in the sense that nothing that the company manufactured broke. That adaptor is used for people with a rotary BP that wants to use it with a PC aswell. I'm assuimg that the adaptor needs to be tightened to the PC with the given tool from Porter Cable and then have the backing plate tightened into that. I think that a Backing plate that is made for the PC would be ideal for this kit which you wouldnt have had to worry about this problem.
 
It'd be tough to do a whole car on 4"ers I think.
Thanx for posting the response. Only fair.

I don't understand how all this work; I've never used a PC. My DW849 has a bolt in the middle. I screw the pad on. Nothing can come off. Can anyone explain?
 
PEI Detail said:
It'd be tough to do a whole car on 4"ers I think.
Thanx for posting the response. Only fair.

I don't understand how all this work; I've never used a PC. My DW849 has a bolt in the middle. I screw the pad on. Nothing can come off. Can anyone explain?
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A rotary has a threaded post to screw the BP onto. A PC has a nut. The threaded post is on the BP instead.
 
The hex may be be there also to un loosen the adapter after use..with the thread being right handed..and the rotation being clockwise..the adapter should tighten tighter than a bulls A$$..so the hex head may be needed to undue the adapter...and the plastic washer being a compression washer to lock in..also to not have a metal to metal bond...could be a million reasons why it failed...pads threads may be over sized due to a dirty tap on the production press...

worked in a machine shop a few years..and doing QC on production run parts ..you grabbed one to check it on a optical comparator to see if spec's are variant..and believe it or not..you get parts out of spec..due to wear on taps..dies...brooches...carbide cutters...and tool chucks due to build up.

it is just like cars..some get a sweet heart..some get lemons....

and Autogeek is in no way part of this...it is a manufacturer's responsibility to enforce QC .

I am suprised LC did not ask to have piece sent to them to examine them to rule out a defect...

I work as a mechanic now for the Post Office and see bad machining all the time and wonder how it lasted that long before it finally broke...

Al
 
OK. Last post on this subject, because I'm fuming mad over this whole situation and I don't want to give myself a coronary.

First, I would like to thank Eric for trying to distract everyone from the real issues at hand with extraneous information like whether I was planning on polishing my whole car with 4" pads or not. This was not the case and I only was able to use the kit for about 3 seconds before the backing plate spun off anyway. I was planning on polishing the whole car, but not entirely with 4" pads.

Second, I would like to state that it was the adapter that struck the hood and removed the paint.

Third, I am not a "DIY'er" I don't own wrenches, sockets, or any of that stuff. I have a cordless drill which is used 99.999% of the time as an electric screw driver. So, my first instinct is not to get out a wrench and tighten it if it's large enough for me to get my hand around. Besides, Eric has stated that the motion of the PC should tighten the connection due to the direction of the orbit. If these pieces MUST be wrench tightened than there should be something on or in the box saying that.

Fourth, I used the lock washer, tightened the pieces by hand as much as possible, and it has been stated that the PC's orbit should further tighten the adapter/BP connection . . . so why did mine come apart? No one has been able to answer this and I'm certainly not going to be crawling around my garage to find the washer to see if that was the part that failed. IMO that only leaves that the BP/adapter were defective. I'm very happy that Eric was not able to repeat my results with the adapter/BP he has. It shows that they were able to correctly manufacture the one he has. Congratulations. :rolleyes: Doesn't prove anything about the one I have as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, I would like to thank two people. First, Autogeek for politely passing on my problem to the manufacturer in an effort to get this resolved and to prevent this from happening to other people. :rockon IMHO this was the correct thing to do. I would also like to thank a non-DC sponsor company who saw my post and offered to send me completely at their cost a BP with a fixed screw post so that I could still use the pads that came with the kit. Anyone who wants to know who this vendor is can feel free to PM me. They will definitely be seeing business from me in the future. Lake Country on the other hand will not be getting any of my future business.
 
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