SoCal - washing off ash

R

RAG

New member
Though it's hardly the most important thing people will be thinking about here is San Diego...there will nevertheless be plenty of people wanting to know how to get the ash off their vehicles without causing damage, as ash can sometimes be quite corrosive, possibly etching the paint when mixed with water.



For my own cars, I used an electric blower to remove as much ash as possible, then used a foam gun to soak the car and hopefully neutralize any of the caustic stuff, then proceeded to rinse the cars off with high pressure water and finally washed as normal - everything went fine. I supposed if a foam gun was not available, I'd find some way to spray a mixture of soapy water on the vehicle before rinsing off with plain water...



Any thoughts?
 
I believe when the ash get WET when it is corrosive/acidic.



I know pollen is fine on your paint till it gets wet. So I don't know if it's the same principal.
 
RAG is absolutely correct. This according to Mike Phillips of Megs. I asked the same question several years ago when ahem.......So Cal went through the same scenario. And I feel RAGs approach is correct. Im telling all my clients if they decide to get a wash, to take it on the frwy for several miles at the speed limit (Yeah right) to blow the majority of ash off, then hit it with a hi pressure nozzle. I dont think its really posing a hazard unless one was to NRWS it. Then again, maybe the NRWS can help neutralize it.....
 
I'm using ONR (for what these insanely anal people just have to have) to get it done and it's working fine. For a vehicle the size of a Navigator it's taking about 3 buckets to get it done as the solution looks like CRAP at about 1/3 the way through. I also overused the solution in the amount that I let run off the surface.
 
Helped a buddy out with a black bmw that recently had the hood and truck repainted...on the way over her used wiper fluid and the mixture apparently combined with the ash and etched his paint where it dripped fluid out near the two nozzles on the hood. But I can say the above-mentioned routine did not leave any etching; the danger is most likely when the water/ash mixture is allowed to sit on the paint for a sustained period of time.
 
It doesn't even need to be a sustained period of time. The carbonates and bicarbonates in solution make a highly basic environment. Metal oxides in solution will dissociate with anions making it further basic. As if that weren't enough, on drying, the metals from those metal oxides will stay put leaving behind water spots.



It's not acidic (as far as my limited chemistry tells me... feel free to correct me) but it's heavily basic and that's no better for the paint than a strong acid. So be careful guys. If you get ashy water droplets, make sure it gets taken care of, quickly.
 
I think that it basically requires two steps.



First you get as much of the ash off as you can while it is still dry and easily removed. Either drive the car or blow it off with air. The more you can remove from the car the easier the second step will be.



The second step that I use is to hit the car with my pressure washer. Remove it as quickly as you can and with as little paint contact as possible. Take your time in removing the ash to make sure that you get it all.



As said above, the alkaline properties of the ash will only become apparent if it is allowed to sit on the paint while dry for an extended period of time.
 
I'm curious about one thing, since water + baking soda (neutral Ph) can neutralize battery acid, what effect would a solution of W + B/S do if sprayed onto the car (with like a garden pump sprayer) and allowed to soak a minute or two prior to washing would have on the acidic/alkali effect of the ash?



Any grit left over from the B/S would be no worse than any other dirt/grit/crud ordinarily encountered during a wash, probably much less.
 
I'm pretty mad cuz I just recently did my yearly detail with decontamination and everything. It's not leaving the garage until the air is clear again.
 
Don M said:
I'm curious about one thing, since water + baking soda (neutral Ph) can neutralize battery acid, what effect would a solution of W + B/S do if sprayed onto the car (with like a garden pump sprayer) and allowed to soak a minute or two prior to washing would have on the acidic/alkali effect of the ash?



Any grit left over from the B/S would be no worse than any other dirt/grit/crud ordinarily encountered during a wash, probably much less.
Click to expand...



There'd really be no point in neutralizing anything on your car since, when you rinse off the car, the ash will come off the car before it has a chance to attack your paint. By hitting your car with water you wouldn't be creating any reaction of any kind. If you hit the car with water and allow the water to sit, the ash's various constituents will go into solution and start attacking your paint. This is only a problem if you sort of drizzle water onto your paint and allow it to sit there.



Also, backing soda and water isn't "neutral." It's basic. The components of ash will make a basic solution too, so backing soda solution will NOT neutralize what's on your car. At best, it'll somewhat dilute the basicity. If you want to neutralize the ash solution, you'll want to spray vinegar on your car.



But again, you may as well rinse the car. You know, avoid the hassle of balancing reactions and what not.



Edit: I just looked up baking soda and realized it's sodium bicarbonate (and not the sodium hydroxide that I thought... which would uh, not be just a little bit harsh.) When that dissociates, it forms Na ions and importantly, bicarbonate ions, which an important buffer so theoretically, baking soda would tend to bring the pH closer to neutral, but you'd have to use a fair amount and it'd still be easier to just rinse the car off.
 
I did a really wet(lots of solution used) ONR wash. It almost appeared that I had washed the car there was so much water on the ground around the car. I'll trust that that was good enough. While there was *some* ash on the car it wasn't that bad.
 
ok good...lol, I was beginning to think that I would be screwed. I have a couple details in Laguna where you cant wash in the driveway and if ONR was not a reliable ash removal wash solution, I wouldnt be able to do the jobs...
 
Yea, ONR would be just fine. The wash bucket, if allowed to get too dirty might start getting basic but by then you'd probably be rubbing grit against your paint. Any soap will be fine, really.



The ONLY fear of a highly basic solution causing etching is if you allow a water/ash solution to sit on your paint. It doesn't have to sit very long (in my estimation, noting that I only have a year's basic college chemistry) but it won't instantly strip your paint off your car. If you let it sit long enough for the ash to fully dissolve in the water, that's when you start having problems.



I think I may have caused some concerns... my bad! Just wash the car the way you would wash a really dirty car. It's really no different. Just be careful if you get a random water droplet on your car, it'll be a dastardly little droplet in a matter of minutes.
 
With all this ash recently, it has allowed me to try out my foam cannon a bit more. I haven't had the time to do proper washes, nor would I want to since it will just get dirty again. All the ash has been driving me crazy so I've been rinsing it with high-pressure water, foaming with the cannon, and then followed with a high-pressure rinse. Since it wasn't properly washed, I did not dry the car.



Some weeks earlier I tried the same thing using NXT car soap right about when the sun was about to set. By the time I was done, it was already dark and after a drive to Costco and doing some shopping there, when I came out I had noticed some major water spots.



I decided to finally give the Duragloss soap a try to see how well it works in the foam cannon. I've been reluctant to use it as it's currently the most expensive soap in my stash and I love it for regular washes. As far as foaming capabilities go, it wasn't a big difference from NXT, CG Citrus Wash n' Gloss, or Turtle Wax Ice. At the same dilutions (I've been trying out 10:1), they all seem to foam similarly, with NXT probably the worst of the bunch, but NXT wasn't bad by all means when you compare it to the others I've tried.



But the difference between the NXT and Duragloss car wash is that there was significantly a LOT less water spots. Not only were there less spots, but the spots weren't as noticeable. I still got spots with DG's wash since my water is not softened or deionized. I had done this at roughly the same time of day as when I tried NXT. A couple of days later I decided to do another quick foam and rinse using the DG soap again, but this time while there was a bit more light out. I got the same results again, with less water spots than NXT.



Turtle Wax Ice doesn't compare to DG's wash, but it was less than $6 for the gallon from Costco (good luck finding it though) and I mainly bought it to try out in the foam cannon. I just might have to see how well it works compared to NXT and DG when it comes to water spotting. I try not to use CG's Citrus Wash n' Gloss in the foam cannon because it's stronger stuff and the last thing I want to do is strip off what little protection I have.
 
So the important factor here is to get rid of the ash as quickly as possible. Avoiding water from standing with apparent ash fallout is deemed wise. I had a talk with my son who is taking chem is college, and he said pretty much what phamkl stated. Adding water gives you basic. You cant neutralize basic with basic, and either side of 7.0ph is not good.....
 
I think trying to blow off as much ash as you can before washing is a sound idea. Rinsing the ash off quickly shouldn't allow it to react too quickly and become a damaging basic solution. But, since the ash residue is indeed basic, you would want to use something like a diluted vinegar solution (slightly acidic) to neutralize the ash residue. I would follow this with a pH neutral shampoo wash.
 
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