Single-step pre-wax help

C

charlieo

New member
First off, I want to thank all of you Autopians for the great info you've provided in the past. While there is a great subjective element to detailing, you always strive for back up your claims in a scientifically valid way, and I appreciate that.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not willing to go crazy with detailing. If one of you were to get close to my car's paint, you would probably cringe. I take very good care of it, but it's kept outside, the birds and the trees seem to love it, as well as the nice people who like to mix the paint from their car doors with mine. If you step back from my car, it looks great, and this is fine with me, I get a lot of compliments on my car's appearance.

I've been experimenting with using Clay Magic, 3M 39009 (Perfect-it SMR), S-100 SEC and wax. I do all by hand. While the clay and SMR work okay, I don't like the process of using the clay, and the SMR leaves oily-looking smears all over. The S-100 SEC is great at removing these smears, but I'm not sure what else it's doing that benefits me, seems to add a bit of 'black' to my black 2000 Civic SI. The S-100 wax (I went out and bought 3 cans) is nice to use, but I swear it's no longer beading if we go through a rainy week here on Long Island.

I'm looking for a single product that I can use twice a year to clean and prepare my paint for waxing. I think Gliptone ProBuff was better at cleaning than anything I'm using now, it's a little gritty, but I don't think using something that's a bit aggressive will hurt if I use it twice a year. I'm also going back to Collinite 476S (?), and, contrary to the printed instructions, I'm going to remove it before it dries (much easier to use, and this comes from a Collinite rep.). I plan on waxing maybe 4X a year.

Sorry for the long intro, but, can you guys agree on a single-step wipe-on, wipe-off, non-staining (unless the wax will remove the stains), 2X a year paint prep product?

Thanks for your help,

CharlieO
 
CharlieO, your paint prep basically is your polish. Its strips any previous buildup, clears away oxidation, small swirls, paint transfers i.e. parking lot exchanges....It entirely feasable to only do it twice a year, if your protection product is a worthy product. With that said, its obvious your going to have to use either a polymer or acrylic (Klasse, the longest lasting, Blackfire, Platinum, Zaino (never used). There are many others. Dont give up on the 3M SMR, what your seeign with the smearing is its oils rejuvenating the paint. I would hit it again until its evened out, it does a great job of removing light swirls, and darkening the color, beit light or dark. The product decision is your alone, considering ease of use, and results. I prefer Blackfire, others hate it, i like Platinum, but not quite as much as BF. I have Poorboys, but havent used it yet.

If what Im hearing is you only want to completely detail twice a year, consider frequent Quick detailers such as Clearkotes Quickshine etc......
 
charlieo- I sympathize with your plight and it reminds me of how I treat our '84 Volvo wagon. Not at ALL up to Autopian standards but it sure does get compliments and it looks good enough for us.



Let's see...IF you have any significant marring, you're just gonna HAVE to use an abrasive polish, so this would be your pre-wax prep. *I* would use either 1Z's Paint Polish (green can) or 3M's PI-III Mg (pn 05937). Either one would be MY preference over the SMR.



*I* WOULD, however, throw in a separate step here. I know, not what you want, but it only takes a second and it works GREAT under the 476S. Autoglym's Super Resin Polish is similar to AIO, but it really does provide decent protection. It goes on/off VERY, VERY easily. Doesn't stain (*MY*) trim but I don't let it dry on it either. IF/when you don't have any significant marring, you can skip the aforementioned abrasives and just use the SRP to clean your paint. No need to IMMEDIATELY top with wax if you're pressed for time, it'll protect just fine (all by itself) until the next wash.



Even with both the above steps, *I* think you'll find it a LOT easier than SMR/SEC.



Topping the SRP with the 476S works well, in both results and effort. They just seem to really compliment each other. This combo hides a bit of marring too, especially from a few feet back. I too remove the 476S before it has a chance to really dry and *I* don't need to wax 4 times a year with it; it lasts longer than that (the Volvo sits outside). But your car is black and black DOES soak up a lot of heat.



AND..if you just can't do the two steps, consider using an aggressive cleaner-wax (Meg's makes one, I forget its number but it's a Pro product) before/under the 476S.



BTW, using the Block/Glide clay system while washing seems VERY easy to me. MUCH easier than other clay methods/products.
 
charlieo,

I can't add too much to Patrick's and Accumulator's comments but I'll try. I too have one car that sits outside and it is a great challenge to keep it as nice as I'd like. In fact the clear coat is starting to fail which is extra frustrating but I find I can live with it for now. I need a 3rd garage space! :D



I now consider claying part of my wash step. I wash the car, 2 buckets, rinsing my brush/mitt often (boars hair brush mostly), with the car still wet I apply a little Meg's FI to a panel and quickly go over it with the clay stopping for stubborn spots. I then immediately go back over the panel with the brush/mitt and rinse. I was shocked at how easy, very fast and effective this made claying. I don't clay every wash but more likely once a month.



3M-PI III works with a PC and I've also hit spots by hand and found my results good. If you have bird bombs or water spots that have etched your clear I'd also have some DACP ready.



I'm a big fan of AIO :bow as it is simple to use, I cover virtually everything trim, plastic, rubber etc and it improves their appearance and it comes off pretty easily with a little QD close by. By far AIO gives me the most "buttery" soft finish...smooth as the day is long and would be a good prep for your S-100.



Good luck,



Russ
 
Thanks guys,

Right now I'm going to stick with wax, I may look into polymers in the future, but I just want to settle into something more familiar for now. I really felt that the Collinite lasted well enough for me. I'm not sure what Accumulator is referring to as 'marring', it sounds like actual paint transfer/damage from other car doors. I don't have too much of a problem with this. My problem is dirt, water spots (which it seems one cannot remove by hand, and I'll live if this is the case), consequences of bird droppings, sap, etc.

I don't want to be removing too much from the paint, but I need to give it a good cleaning and prep before waxing. It seems like this may be impossible, perhaps I'll have to get both an aggressive cleaner for occasional (1 to 2X a year) serious-cleaning, and a good polish/prep for general pre-wax prep. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that there is a single-step prep that will clean adequately yet safely, and make the paint purdy and ready for wax. Thanks for any recommendations.

Charlieo
 
charlieo said:
Thanks guys...

I'm not sure what Accumulator is referring to as 'marring', it sounds like actual paint transfer/damage from other car doors...

perhaps I'll have to get both an aggressive cleaner for occasional (1 to 2X a year) serious-cleaning, and a good polish/prep for general pre-wax prep. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that there is a single-step prep that will clean adequately yet safely, and make the paint purdy and ready for wax. Thanks for any recommendations.

Charlieo
Click to expand...



I sometimes forget that terms we use here at Autopia can easily be misconstrued. By "marring" I mean things like swirls/scratches/etching (perfect example of the consequences of bird droppings)/etc. that REFRACT light as opposed to REFLECTING it (the way a smooth surface will). This is the sort of thing you need an abrasive to deal with. Smoothing the paint through abrasive action really is necessary at times.



While you're smart to be concerned about removing too much paint, I'll bet that (especially since you are approaching this from a conservative point of view) you won't have any problem. The 1Z and 3M products I recommended should fit the bill nicely. If I were going to ONLY use the Collinite (nothing wrong with that!), I'd get 1Z's Paint Polish (green can) for the 1-2X/year jobs and their Metallic Polish (red can) for the "general pre-wax prep". The Metallic Polish is SO mild that it absolutely will NOT remove too much paint. The S100 SEC (I think that's the name, I use the P21S equivalent, called GEPC) or Pinnacle's Paintwork Cleansing Lotion are other options for pre-wax prep. Again, they're SO mild that you can use them as often as you like.
 
Thanks Accumulator,

I think I'll go for the Green 1Z polish. If I'm reading you correctly, the SRP (your overall preference?), AIO, 1Z Metallic Polish, and S-100 SEC are all pretty comparable and any one of these would work as a one-step prep for a good wax, assuming the green 1Z wasn't called for at the time. I'm also going to try russ968's method of claying. I was reading the Einzsatt website, they recommend polish before clay, but I think most of you guys do clay as a first step. Either way, once I use up my clay, I don't think I'll be buying more.

Thanks again,

Charlieo
 
charlieo said:
Thanks Accumulator,

I think I'll go for the Green 1Z polish. If I'm reading you correctly, the SRP (your overall preference?), AIO, 1Z Metallic Polish, and S-100 SEC are all pretty comparable and any one of these would work as a one-step prep for a good wax, assuming the green 1Z wasn't called for at the time. I'm also going to try russ968's method of claying. I was reading the Einzsatt website, they recommend polish before clay, but I think most of you guys do clay as a first step. Either way, once I use up my clay, I don't think I'll be buying more.

Thanks again,

Charlieo
Click to expand...



Yes, Russ968's claying method works well. Just be sure to really CLEAN the panel before claying it so you don't grind in some dirt. 1Z's post-polish method is, uhm, ill-advised under most circumstances.



I think you'll be quite pleased with the 1Z green.



Slight differentiation between the products you mentioned. I go back and forth between preferring SRP or AIO, it's THAT close, but if you're just gonna top it with Collinite, well, the SRP is what *I* prefer (and use) for that purpose. The SRP and the AIO will do NOTHING for marring. They're virtually NON-abrasive; SRP is maybe a LITTLE more abrasive than the AIO, but nothing to worry about (I'm talking about a virtually imperceptible difference, something you'd only notice on single-stage paint, if at all). Likewise the SEC and Vanilla Moose (another good product) are *SLIGHTLY* abrasive, but again, nothing to worry about (you'll *NEVER* damage your vehicle with any of these products). They all leave fillers/wax/synthetic protection/something on the finish (no problems toping with the Collinite; don't worry). The 1Z red is more of a straight (but VERY mild) abrasive polish. Some oils, but it won't really leave anything on the finish the way the SRP, AIO, etc. will.



I *DON'T* mean to make this more complicated than it needs to be. I'd try the 1Z green, SRP, then Collinite. See what you think. Next time you do more than just clay and refresh the Collinite, use the SRP before it. Those three products, plus clay (*DO* buy more! Get the Block & Glide), oughta do you just fine.
 
Gotcha, I assume that using the S-100 wax doesn't change your preference for prep (I've got 3 jars of the stuff, I'll use it in summer, I guess). It sounds like the 1Z green and the SRP will be working their way into my supply closet. It sounded like you preferred the SRP due to the protection it left: would you go with AIO if you know I planned to wax over it every time? Lastly, I'm treating the leather steering wheel and shift handle in my car: I swished a bar of unscented Dove soap (Dove is supposed to be of a neutral pH) very lightly in some water, went over the leather, went over again immediately afterward with a damp towel (filtered water), when dry, I'm using Redwing boot oil, and then, later, some 303. I asked a tech at Lexol, I believe, he thought the boot oil would be fine (if the leather really needs to be 'fed' this way, I don't know). I originally was using saddle soap (I don't let that sit either, I get it off immediately), but it seems that saddle soap shouldn't be used on fine leather, period.

By the way, you're not making things complicated, you've been very clear and specific, I hate when I have to keep clarifying what I felt was a very clearly-stated question, in order to find out what I need to do. For instance, you've made it clear that the red 1Z isn't what I want to use, I need more of a prep product. Thanks once again.

Charlieo
 
charlieo- Yeah, *I* DO prefer the SRP for what you're doing (even with the P21S and your plan to rewax frequently). I would, however, consider having some AIO around anyhow, if only for it's VERY-trim-friendly cleaning abilities. It DOES clean a bit better than the SRP and it is absolutely non-staining.



Redwing boot oil, huh? My late father swore by the stuff and I don't see a downside as long as you don't overdo it. Too slimy for me, though (I usually use Connolly Hide Food, Griot's Leather Care, or Pinnacle's leather stuff). Yeah, saddle soap is out of favor with most Autopians as it supposedly dries out the leather. Never had a problem with it myself, but I generally use Griot's Interior Cleaner or a dedicated leather cleaner (like Lexol's) to clean automotive leather.
 
For the record, the use of boot oil on a leather boot is known to prevent the boot from getting a really nice shine. I stopped using it on my boots, so I'm using it up on my car leather. I was going to get the Lexol package at Costco (some great deals at Costco), but I hear it leaves a glossy finish, so I'm hesitant. I might get it anyway, I'm gonna guess that the gloss wears off, and using 303 over it should settle things down enough.

Now, don't get me started on shoe care, and certainly don't get me started on vinyl LP care...
 
A very short answer that will do the job -- Meguiar's Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner followed by Mequiar's Medallion Premium Paint Protection. It works for me. If you want a deeper shine you can top the Premium Paint Protection with your S-100 wax anytime you want to.



Tom :cool: (a lazy old guy)
 
You wet the applicator with the cleaning fluid and start the machine to wet the whole surface. Now turn on the vacuum to remove the surface pollutants and the cleaning fluid. Finish off with Last preservative. Oops, sorry that was for LPs...

I am with the ones that recommended Klasse AIO. It's one of the easiest products to use. The least amount of effort that gets super results that last a long time.
 
I knew there were some vinyl-philes on this forum, but I'm a bit concerned that I may have crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed: I woke up at 3 AM today in my driveway, scrubbing the hood of my car with the homebrew record cleaning solution I use in my VPI. The car did run a bit quieter, however...

Back to the detailing, though: I picked up a can of Collinite 885 (476 wasn't available), so I'm ready for winter. I think that the main thing I dislike about my finish is the water spots. I don't think clay will address water spots (nothing seems to, actually), I'm hoping that the 1Z green will help, but, especially since it's all done by hand, I won't hold my breath. Any way, it's time to use up my old supplies so I can start fresh in the spring. Thanks to all for the advice.
 
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