show quality paint

[blucpe]

i'll be getting my car back from my freinds autobody in a couple of days, it was repainted on all but three panels, he's doing a show quality job on it, no orange peel, about 3-4 coats of clear after wet sanding. my question is, i know i can't wax or seal for about 3-4 wks. to allow the paint to cure, what would you recommend that i do when the time comes to seal and wax? should i do a lite polish with let's say menz sip and a finishing pad then a ipa wipedown then seal? anyway that's the question, any help would be appreciated.

 

[imported_agentf11]

I would just use a finishing polish like Menzerna PO106FA or 085RD. I do not think you will need the Intense Polish.

 

[Accumulator]

I'd just wait and see and only do what's necessary. If you don't mar it up between now and then it might not need much polishing at all.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

I would just use a finishing polish like Menzerna PO106FA or 085RD. I do not think you will need the Intense Polish.

LOL - Remember most painters can't polish too well.



Now he may not be "most" but.....



We may see some buffertrails.

 

[blucpe]

LOL - Remember most painters can't polish too well.



Now he may not be "most" but.....



We may see some buffertrails.

i hear ya. but this guy has done work on my car before and he's very good imho. he's a perfectionist, especially when it comes to my car because it's shown alot and the results send him alot of business, that being said, what would you recommend sealing it with the first time around. i'm into the glossiest i can get it. i have alot of products, they're all good in their own way, just curious what everyone else would do.

 

[Rtom]

If the paint is still great when the time comes, throw whatever you have on top, then sit back and admire.



A sealant topped with a wax is always a sure bet

 

[efnfast]

LOL - Remember most painters can't polish too well.



Now he may not be "most" but.....



We may see some buffertrails.

Here's my painter's idea of a flawless SEMA quality paint job :spit:

50hrs later (for the entire car; some DEEP wool-induced RIDs) here's my idea

He's one of the best local painters around here. Detailing, well....:spit:

 

[Mike_Phillips]

i

especially when it comes to my car because it's shown alot and the results send him alot of business,

You're question about what to do when you get the car back with the fresh paint...



Do you have to return the car to service? That is do you have to drive it everyday or is it going to sit in your garage?



If it's going to be in your garage then don't do anything for the next 30 days, just let it sit and let the paint fully harden and dry.



If you have to return the car back to service, that is drive it everyday, then to my knowledge there is not a single paint manufacture that recommends sealing their paint systems before at least 30 days air cure, some recommend longer.



On this forum and other forums, there are members that will recommend you to go ahead and seal the paint and don't worry about it for a host of different reasons. You kind of have to decide who you want to list to, your forum friends or the paint manufacture of your painter. Sometimes a painter will tell you to not wax or seal the paint for 30 days and some painters will tell you it's okay.





I've only ever heard of one product that is stated by the company to be a fresh paint safe wax, here's the link to a page with information on the product.





ValuGard Product Data Sheets





Scroll down till you see a category of products called "Body Shop Products", to me this means products safe to us "in" a body shop but it's possible the person that created their website doesn't know the issues that surround body shop safe products or has been given confusing information about the product.



Anyway in this category is a product called "Finishing Wax" and it states,

Protection of FRESH paints after final polishing.

Doesn't say anything about waiting 30 days? I e-mailed the company a very nice letter and asked for clarification but have not heard back from them.





Here's a screenshot from the description page,

If it were my car and I didn't have to put the car back into service then I would just wait for 30 days or whatever the painter recommends or states you must wait for any warranty to be in affect.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Nice save on your Cobra's swirled-out paint... :xyxthumbs

He's one of the best local painters around here. Detailing, well....:spit:

Most painter's I've known really love to paint.... sanding and buffing? That's hard work.





"It's they guy that does the sanding and buffing that will make or break a custom paint job"

 

[Flashtime]

Actually, it's the guy that does the body work that will make or break the custom job.

 

[efnfast]

Nice save on your Cobra's swirled-out paint... :xyxthumbs

Thanks - from looking at it you wouldn't think the damage was that bad, but I had to attack some areas with 5-6passes of a PFW pad and SIP to remove the RIDs (And I don't mean chasing down every RID, jjust removing the majority of them)

Actually, it's the guy that does the body work that will make or break the custom job.

Agreed; however if the pre-paint prep sucks, well, then, there goes all your hard bodywork

 

[Accumulator]

A while back I read somewhere (sheesh, like *that's* likely to sound credible ) that OCW has been officially approved by Ford for use on fresh, post-production paintwork. Anybody who really cares oughta be able to track that down.



Along perhaps similarly unreliable lines...

I've only ever heard of one product that is stated by the company to be a fresh paint safe wax, here's the link to..[AutoInt/ValuGard]...information..

I gotta say that Ron Ketchum of AutoInt has 100% credibility in my book; he's up there on my short-list with guys like you. If Ron OKs something (and that's implicit in any ValuGard product unless he's retired, which I haven't heard of), I'd trust it. But hey, I'm just some semi-anonymous poster on the internet and I don't want to encourage people to be cyber-chumps.



All that having been said, if the vehicle has to be used, it's Meguiar's #5 for me, for at least the first 90 days. Period.

 

[Barry Theal]

Nice save on your Cobra's swirled-out paint... :xyxthumbs









Most painter's I've known really love to paint.... sanding and buffing? That's hard work.





"It's they guy that does the sanding and buffing that will make or break a custom paint job"

I know a very talented painter and I ask him once, " Your work looks very flawless I never seen a painter finish his work out this nice. I asked about his sanding and polishing process. His exact words.. I know how to shoot paint and its a good thing. If I had to sand and buff my work I wouldn't make any money." Point taken here. Hey pretty much said I so good I don't need sand. LOL he is a humble man. :LOLOL Very talented painter.

 

[mmm...waxporn]

Dang Barry, what's that guy's name?! That's the guy I'm looking for!

 

[Barry Theal]

lol his name is Mike He is up here in pa. I can get you his number if your serious. pm me

 

[crc1]

Allowing new paint/clearcoat enough time to cure fully is very important, or you could have all kinds of problems including solvent pops, layer separation, early clearcoat failure, soft surface, the list goes on and on. Applying a sealer too soon traps the solvents under the surface and literally stops the curing process.

The cure time can also vary depending on temperature and humidity.



Every auto paint manufacturer provides product data sheets that specifies how their product should be used. Your painter should have or be able to get that info. If the data sheets don't recommend cure times, the technical services department of the paint manufacturer should be able to help.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

If Ron OKs something (and that's implicit in any ValuGard product unless he's retired, which I haven't heard of), I'd trust it.

If I hear back from them I'll share the information, I know this topic, (a fresh paint protectant), comes up often enough that if it's possible to make such a product that's a niche market for it.



At least a couple of times while working at Meguiar's, I offered the idea of taking the fresh paint safe polymer in M80 Speed Glaze out of M80 and making a stand-alone product without the abrasives and even without the polishing oils so it would just be the "Paint Shop Safe Protection" ingredients, but the feedback was there wasn't a large enough market for the idea/product.



For those reading this that might no know, M80 Speed Glaze is a "Cleaner/Polish" by Meguiar's terminology that uses diminishing abrasives and a rich concentration of polishing oils like found in the other traditional pure polishes like M03, M05 and M07, it also contains a sleight amount of some type of synthetic polymer that provides some level of protection as compared to no protection at all.



There's some discussion about the topic of a paintable polymer in M80 in this article from 2004...





Paint Needs to Breathe





Just took these pictures to show the statement...

If person wanted to, they could gently apply some of this to their fresh paint and then my guess is, let it dry?



I don't know about the drying part, some protection ingredients bond to the paint through the drying process but I don't know if that would include whatever the ingredient is inside the M80 Speed Glaze. I think I touch on this topic in the linked-to thread above or elsewhere? I don't remember.



For what it's worth...

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Allowing new paint/clearcoat enough time to cure fully is very important, or you could have all kinds of problems including solvent pops, layer separation, early clearcoat failure, soft surface, the list goes on and on. Applying a sealer too soon traps the solvents under the surface and literally stops the curing process.

The cure time can also vary depending on temperature and humidity.



Every auto paint manufacturer provides product data sheets that specifies how their product should be used. Your painter should have or be able to get that info. If the data sheets don't recommend cure times, the technical services department of the paint manufacturer should be able to help.

Everything you wrote is correct.



What you will find on "detailing discussion forums" is that some will argue, (not me), that because modern clear coats are catalyzed or chemically hardened, and then often times baked (to some degree), at the "some" body shops, that you can apply a paint sealant or even a wax before the 30 days are up.



I always tell people to go by their painter tell them to do or by what the paint manufacture recommends. Generally speaking, the manufacture knows their product best.



For most people, not all but most, there's usually not a HUGE hurry to seal the paint even if they have to return the car to service immediately. Modern clear coat finishes are pretty tough by themselves and a coating of wax or paint sealant is measured in microns or sub-microns, at least the products available to the general public.





Here's a recent thread where the topic of sealing fresh paint came up...





Wetsanding SS paint on 1961 Lincoln Continental





In the above thread the forum member John Kleven mentions he sees the car regularly and if there are any issues he'll have a chance to inspect the paint.



My comment in the thread was that this topic comes up from time to time so people are interested to know what happens over time if fresh paint is sealed before the paint manufactures recommended waiting time.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

When FK1 was around I was told that 2180 was ok after 72 hours. So I actually applied it a few years ago on our van when part of the right side was repainted.

I don't know if that helps the OP?

 

[Accumulator]

At least a couple of times while working at Meguiar's, I offered the idea of taking the fresh paint safe polymer in M80 Speed Glaze out of M80 and making a stand-alone product.. but the feedback was there wasn't a large enough market for the idea/product...

That woulda been great if Meguiar's *had* sold the fresh-paint-safe polymer stuff as a stand-alone, but yeah...no money to be made there; I'm pleasantly surprised they still sell #5!



I'd be leery of that "put #80 on and just let it dry" idea just because I know from first-hand experience that the initial bite of the abrasives in #80 can be a bit much for some (really) fresh paints as it is. (Before somebody posts something...yeah, I know...people wetsand/compound, but still, it happened to me with fresh RM b/c...)