Shop opens February 1st

Concours.John

Concours.John

Auto Detail & Restoration
Everything is finally in place. I start writing the big checks tomorrow.
The question is how do you guys deal with help? Right now I don't want the burden of employees but could use help on occasion till things grow a little more.

The problem lies that there is a fine line between employee and sub-contractor. I really need things to be done a certain way.

I have had helpers in the past but the problem is.
A. They don't always want to work hard
B. When an expensive exotic comes in they are too busy at times just checking out the car and taking pics.
C. Texting
D. My short fuse for nonsense.

I do not want to go through people and them getting mad cause they have to hit the road and worry about the cars I work on. I already have 24hr surveilance, alarm, c.c. permit and a multi-million dollar policy lined up because of certain vehicles and lack of trust.(not cheap)

I have some thoughts on pre-screening but it would be nice to hear some other thoughts. I know there are some of you out there who deal with this either in detailing or your full time profession.

During winter I will be doing restoration work mostly so it affords some time to come up with a plan.

Thanks in advance guys.:bigups
 
Why not look for some folks on here (or other established detailing forums) that may be interested in helping out? Possibly some hobbyist or someone looking to get established?

I know *I* would really like the opportunity to work with/for some of the professionals I have seen on here and other places - it just seems like there is not anyone around me. I don;t really care to have my own shop or a big list of clientele, but helping out in someone's professional shop a couple times a week would be right up my alley.
 
JaredPointer said:
Why not look for some folks on here (or other established detailing forums) that may be interested in helping out? Possibly some hobbyist or someone looking to get established?

I know *I* would really like the opportunity to work with/for some of the professionals I have seen on here and other places - it just seems like there is not anyone around me. I don;t really care to have my own shop or a big list of clientele, but helping out in someone's professional shop a couple times a week would be right up my alley.
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you can come volunteer here Jared :D

John ... unfortunately you will find it hard to find workers with the same passion as an owner ... Pockets drives me :crazy2: with his texting, but this is today's society and unless you are ready to have full time expensive employees then you will be watching them come and go as well as their habits ... and if you find out how to get employees to not stop and gawk at an exotic ..please tell me :lol2:
 
Steve said:
you can come volunteer here Jared :D

John ... unfortunately you will find it hard to find workers with the same passion as an owner ... Pockets drives me :crazy2: with his texting, but this is today's society and unless you are ready to have full time expensive employees then you will be watching them come and go as well as their habits ... and if you find out how to get employees to not stop and gawk at an exotic ..please tell me :lol2:
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its simple... just hire someone who owns an exotic car :D
 
Steve said:
you can come volunteer here Jared :D

John ... unfortunately you will find it hard to find workers with the same passion as an owner ... Pockets drives me :crazy2: with his texting, but this is today's society and unless you are ready to have full time expensive employees then you will be watching them come and go as well as their habits ... and if you find out how to get employees to not stop and gawk at an exotic ..please tell me :lol2:
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I don't mind the gawking as long as work gets done.
The problem I had was I have a customer who orders cars which are usually the first in the nation.
My little helper sent pics out to all his friends. Less than an hour later around 15 kids show up giving me crap about not taking them for a ride after he tells them I get to drive the cars regularly.
 
JaredPointer said:
Why not look for some folks on here (or other established detailing forums) that may be interested in helping out? Possibly some hobbyist or someone looking to get established?

I know *I* would really like the opportunity to work with/for some of the professionals I have seen on here and other places - it just seems like there is not anyone around me. I don;t really care to have my own shop or a big list of clientele, but helping out in someone's professional shop a couple times a week would be right up my alley.
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Good point thanks Jared! I do keep an eye out when I see people posting flyers. My goal is eventually to give some dedicated people secure employment so I can focus on restoration.
 
Concours.John said:
I don't mind the gawking as long as work gets done.
The problem I had was I have a customer who orders cars which are usually the first in the nation.
My little helper sent pics out to all his friends. Less than an hour later around 15 kids show up giving me crap about not taking them for a ride after he tells them I get to drive the cars regularly.
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well that has to be stated upon employment that no pictures without permission and no visitors unless it is an emergency , it is a place of work
 
Perhaps one of the easiest ways to ensure you don't have the kind of problems you've pinpointed is to hire among an unconventional crowd. Hire people who are disinterested in cars, but possess the physical and mental capacities to do the work. This way instead of thinking "Jeez, I'm working on an Enzo" they'll be thinking "Damn, there sure are a lot of strange curves/edges/etc. to deal with so I can polish this paint."

Some of the best detailers, even ones who ARE car guys, tend to pay more attention to the task at hand (the paint, leather, etc.) and less attention to what that paint or leather is applied to. Until the whole job is done so they can stand back and admire how their work enhances the astronomically cool and expensive vehicle as a whole, that is.
 
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
Perhaps one of the easiest ways to ensure you don't have the kind of problems you've pinpointed is to hire among an unconventional crowd. Hire people who are disinterested in cars, but possess the physical and mental capacities to do the work. This way instead of thinking "Jeez, I'm working on an Enzo" they'll be thinking "Damn, there sure are a lot of strange curves/edges/etc. to deal with so I can polish this paint."

Some of the best detailers, even ones who ARE car guys, tend to pay more attention to the task at hand (the paint, leather, etc.) and less attention to what that paint or leather is applied to. Until the whole job is done so they can stand back and admire how their work enhances the astronomically cool and expensive vehicle as a whole, that is.
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I totally agree. Those people are few and far between. I've seen and been around 6 & 7 figure cars for a while now. I really don't care if you have a 20g car or a 40mil car I give it the same care.

I forget sometimes it may be for others a dream opportunity. It's my passion but more important it's a job I take very seriously.

You made me think I may be too judgmental when it may be new to someone else. Thanks
 
At one time I had a very busy shop and a couple guys straight out of high school working for me. Terrible idea but they were all I could afford, and I got what I paid for. Phones constantly going off, crappy work, and alot of messing around. I mean ALOT. If they wernt spraying each other with the water hose or on the phone with their girlfriends, they were calling in every other day or showing up late. After I closed the shop down and went back to work for a dealership for a while, I decided this spring when I go back on my own full time, its gonna be me only. Not to mention having employees means alot more taxes, unemployment, and other legal bs that you could otherwise avoid.
 
Concours.John said:
I totally agree. Those people are few and far between. I've seen and been around 6 & 7 figure cars for a while now. I really don't care if you have a 20g car or a 40mil car I give it the same care.

I forget sometimes it may be for others a dream opportunity. It's my passion but more important it's a job I take very seriously.

You made me think I may be too judgmental when it may be new to someone else. Thanks
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was going for. :bigups The most important things to remember when opening a shop where more than just you will be working on customer vehicles:

1) As a detailer, it is your job to be passionate about the work you do.

2) As a business owner, it is important that you take the work you do (and the satisfaction of the customers for whom you do it) very seriously.

3) As an employer, it is important that you instill as much of the passion and seriousness you possess as possible upon the people working under you. A good manager doesn't just tell his employees what to do, a good manager motivates his employees to want to do their jobs to the best of their ability if they don't already possess that quality or work ethic coming in.

You've got two out of the three points covered, and I suspect that you are very capable of the third -- just take some time to think about how best to motivate your prospective employees, and when interviewing/hiring always be thinking about whether or not the person you're talking to is someone who you feel you can motivate and inspire or if they appear to just be there for quick easy cash.

If you plan on the shop catering to a wide variety of vehicles, one way you can do this is to not even let your employees near the high profile vehicles you get coming in -- keep them working on the common daily drivers (obviously you would do final inspection of their work before releasing the cars back to their owners) and work the higher dollar vehicles yourself, while in plain view of your employees. Not only does this show them the way you work and the level of work you are capable of producing and expect from them, it gives you the opportunity to incentivize the privilege of working with rare exotics (since, as you said, people who pay less mind to what they're working on than the job at hand are rare).

Let them know that if they prove themselves to be skilled, dedicated, serious workers over time on the "lesser" projects that you will begin to allow them to get hands-on with those more prestigious projects as well. Also this will make a great training tool since if an employee screws something up early on or is forming a bad/dangerous habit in their work, it won't be as costly to repair or as difficult to re-train them working on a BMW X5 as it would be if they're let loose on a '67 Ferrari 275 GTB/4-cam with all original paint.

Ultimately you have to adjust your mindset and be just as passionate and serious about leading people as you are about doing the work itself and making your customers happy. If you see employees as a hassle you'd rather not deal with, you won't manage them well and your results will also be lacking because they will be able to sense your attitude toward them. A great leader wants to lead.

mrclean81 said:
Not to mention having employees means alot more taxes, unemployment, and other legal bs that you could otherwise avoid.
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That too is a great point. If you're initially only going to need occasional help on a project or two from time to time instead of having a regular employee, it would be a LOT easier to simply hire a sub-contractor or two to come in on a per-job basis than it would be to keep someone on payroll.
 
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
That's exactly what I was going for. :bigups The most important things to remember when opening a shop where more than just you will be working on customer vehicles:

1) As a detailer, it is your job to be passionate about the work you do.

2) As a business owner, it is important that you take the work you do (and the satisfaction of the customers for whom you do it) very seriously.

3) As an employer, it is important that you instill as much of the passion and seriousness you possess as possible upon the people working under you. A good manager doesn't just tell his employees what to do, a good manager motivates his employees to want to do their jobs to the best of their ability if they don't already possess that quality or work ethic coming in


You've got two out of the three points covered, and I suspect that you are very capable of the third -- just take some time to think about how best to motivate your prospective employees, and when interviewing/hiring always be thinking about whether or not the person you're talking to is someone who you feel you can motivate and inspire or if they appear to just be there for quick easy cash.

If you plan on the shop catering to a wide variety of vehicles, one way you can do this is to not even let your employees near the high profile vehicles you get coming in -- keep them working on the common daily drivers (obviously you would do final inspection of their work before releasing the cars back to their owners) and work the higher dollar vehicles yourself, while in plain view of your employees. Not only does this show them the way you work and the level of work you are capable of producing and expect from them, it gives you the opportunity to incentivize the privilege of working with rare exotics (since, as you said, people who pay less mind to what they're working on than the job at hand are rare).

Let them know that if they prove themselves to be skilled, dedicated, serious workers over time on the "lesser" projects that you will begin to allow them to get hands-on with those more prestigious projects as well. Also this will make a great training tool since if an employee screws something up early on or is forming a bad/dangerous habit in their work, it won't be as costly to repair or as difficult to re-train them working on a BMW X5 as it would be if they're let loose on a '67 Ferrari 275 GTB/4-cam with all original paint.

Ultimately you have to adjust your mindset and be just as passionate and serious about leading people as you are about doing the work itself and making your customers happy. If you see employees as a hassle you'd rather not deal with, you won't manage them well and your results will also be lacking because they will be able to sense your attitude toward them. A great leader wants to lead.





It couldn't be said any better. Your spot on.
The car in my avatar is what inspired me to make this a profession vs. extra money 16 years ago. I left a much better paying career and stuck with it. In the process learned the skills of restoration and have been fortunate to be involved with some of the top cars in the nation.

Little did I know that 7 years after started as a profession that exact Ferrari would be brought to me for a full correction after many years serious use. Being a 1 of 20 full alloy and original paint it was my first big car. To this day no one else has touched it except the owner. We are now friends and do all his cars.

No one get me wrong, I am not an arrogant or cocky person. I was in the right place at the right time and pursued this with no regard to income. I just feel it is my responsiblity at this point to find the right people willing to learn and give them the same opportunity. I will be able to focus more on special projects and growth, restoration wise and detailing.

This is the my homebase forum (have joined Steve's) and it will be a requirement for whomever to join and learn from you guys. I know you'll set them straight. I respect all the input everyone gives.

I only claim to be good at what I do. To be the best you need to be able to teach what you do. We all get older and I take seriously the need to bring respect to this profession. If nothing else inspire someone to know there are alot of opportunities if you work hard doing this.

Thanks for all your input and any more ideas I am all ears.

John
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Concours.John said:
I don't mind the gawking as long as work gets done. ... My little helper sent pics out to all his friends. Less than an hour later around 15 kids show up giving me crap about not taking them for a ride after he tells them I get to drive the cars regularly.
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John:
Your expectations should be spelled out when you hire them...including emphasizing privacy for your clients. You can try a written list of basic rules (ie: employment manual) on your employment application that specifies

--No cell phones in the work area. Cell phones are to be used on breaks and lunches only.
--Non employees are forbidden in the shop area (insurance reasons).
--We get exotic cars because we offer privacy. Employees may not take photos of cars in for work, share client names or otherwise publicize the shops customers or work in any way.
--Violation of any shop policies including those above may result in disciplinary action including suspension or immediate termination for cause.

And sorry, if you hire young people, you're likely to have to go through a LOT of them. Many of the coddled little snowflakes are just finding out what a regular job and work is.

If you're real lucky, maybe some of the folks working for dealers or other hack shops will hear of you and come to you for the chance to really practice their craft. Good luck...
 
MDerleth said:
John:
Your expectations should be spelled out when you hire them...including emphasizing privacy for your clients. You can try a written list of basic rules (ie: employment manual) on your employment application that specifies

--No cell phones in the work area. Cell phones are to be used on breaks and lunches only.
--Non employees are forbidden in the shop area (insurance reasons).
--We get exotic cars because we offer privacy. Employees may not take photos of cars in for work, share client names or otherwise publicize the shops customers or work in any way.
--Violation of any shop policies including those above may result in disciplinary action including suspension or immediate termination for cause.

And sorry, if you hire young people, you're likely to have to go through a LOT of them. Many of the coddled little snowflakes are just finding out what a regular job and work is.

If you're real lucky, maybe some of the folks working for dealers or other hack shops will hear of you and come to you for the chance to really practice their craft. Good luck...
Click to expand...

great advice :bigups

hiring college kids (4 year school) can be advantageous to you and them if you find the right ones. Those working through school will know they have steady employment and their school and lives may depend on the money so they will be a bit more dedicated. I have a friend who hires 3-4 at a time and they are at various stages of school. So as one leaves he hires and trains another. Yes, most will not be life long employees, but 2-3 years is not a bad turn over period. Hiring younger people will require quite a bit of supervision, but it usually pays off so that they do the work you expect.
You have a few more weeks, so take it all into consideration and take what works for you. ;)
 
Steve said:
great advice :bigups

hiring college kids (4 year school) can be advantageous to you and them if you find the right ones. Those working through school will know they have steady employment and their school and lives may depend on the money so they will be a bit more dedicated. I have a friend who hires 3-4 at a time and they are at various stages of school. So as one leaves he hires and trains another. Yes, most will not be life long employees, but 2-3 years is not a bad turn over period. Hiring younger people will require quite a bit of supervision, but it usually pays off so that they do the work you expect.
You have a few more weeks, so take it all into consideration and take what works for you. ;)
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There used to be a painting outfit in our area that had the same concept by using college students.
 
Yea, I'm in college right now. I have a 30hr/week job already, but if I could find someone near me that had a detailing business & needed some extra help I would jump on it. Just to have a chance for a job I would actually enjoy and the opportunity to learn from a pro.
 
Great advice in this thread. I'd offer two more suggestions:

- Background Checks... at least felonies. You don't have to turn down someone who wrote a bad check at age 19, but you really want to avoid offenses of violence, repeated fraud, serious drugs or sexual stuff. You can check your local sex offender website for free. Criminal records checks for seven years cost about $35 each.

- Drug Test... I've figured out how to get a five panel test... THC, Opiates, Cocaine, Meth and Barbiturates, for $10.

Avoids a ton of problems. I think mentioning this in the fine print of your marketing materials looks good too.
 
JohnHenry said:
Great advice in this thread. I'd offer two more suggestions:

- Background Checks... at least felonies. You don't have to turn down someone who wrote a bad check at age 19, but you really want to avoid offenses of violence, repeated fraud, serious drugs or sexual stuff. You can check your local sex offender website for free. Criminal records checks for seven years cost about $35 each.

- Drug Test... I've figured out how to get a five panel test... THC, Opiates, Cocaine, Meth and Barbiturates, for $10.

Avoids a ton of problems. I think mentioning this in the fine print of your marketing materials looks good too.
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Background and drug tests a must. I have an ex Army Ranger friend who's a PI also my back up if alarm drops.

Edit - I didn't want this post to be taken out of context. This is very intelligent and creative individual which I have great respect and trust.
I don't ask for favors it's business.
He offered to be on my list because he lives right by the shop.

Everyone who is and has served deserves our respect.
 
Steve said:
you might be pushing it to get a perfect employee unless you are going to be paying some big $$$ ....
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I fully understand that. I'd rather take someone who knows nothing but motivated than someone stuck in bad habits.

I'm not a cheap person and the money comes with dedication, honesty, and hard work.

I've always said that a great detailer with the right training would make the best restoration specialist because they know the end result already.

If I had a dollar for everytime I found something on a restored car that could have been fixed with a little more time before paint.
 
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