Sensory overload - Newb complete overhaul questions

[RonMexico]

I've been searching and reading a lot of threads for the last week or so and I don't know if I'm understanding or getting more confused.



First off, I've read through most of the threads in the Autopia library a couple times, followed by other more specific searches.



My vehicle: Black 2003 Ford F-150 Harley Davidson. It is not garage kept at home but spends 35%-40% of its life in a garage (parking garage at work). It has gotten its fair share of scratches and swirl marks over the years.



My plan: complete detailing overhaul, including wash, strip, clay, swirl/scratch remover and wax.



Course of Action:

1.) wash - I have Meg Gold Class,



2.) clay bar - can get Clay Magic and Meguirs Smooth Surface locally. Have read good reviews about Griots Clay and Zaino Z18. have used Mothers california gold but am not a fan of it. Preferences?



3.) Wash again.



4.) Scratch and Swirl Remover - The vehicle condition is not horrible by any means, but she needs some TLC. What product(s) to use on a black vehicle? Sonus SFX-1, Sonus Scratch Removal, Sonus SFX2, Zaino Z-PC, Sonus Swirl Buster? Should I layer one product over the other? Any other products I should think about?



5.) Pre-wax polish. Thinking of picking up the Klass AIO and using it in this step. Should I use Zaino Z2 or Z5 instead or is this a matter of preference? Are the Klass AIO and Z2/Z5 considered sealants or work like sealants?



6.) Sealant. Should I use one and what is a good one? Do you use a sealant and a wax or does the wax act like a sealant? Please see questions in step 5.



7.) Wax. Was thinking of picking up Collinite 845 and then layering with 476 or 915. I've also read very good reviews about P21S 100% and Concours. Can P21S 100% or Concours be layered? Would you want to layer?



8.) Drink beer, look at beautiful deep black truck and curse because my hands and arms will feel like dead weight.



Other general questions:

Should I layer on other steps?

Should I eliminate steps?



I am ordering a PC 7424 from Autogeeks or the Ultimate Detailing Machine from Autopia-carcare.com...are these the same machine? It will be my first time using a random orbital buffer. What pads should I get?



Sorry for the long post, but I'm trying to figure out the proper procedures and products to use to give it a deep glossy/wet look.



Any help, both in terms of steps and products, is greatly appreciated!

 

[Mobilejay]

Wow,

Lets see 1). thats fine

2). again that will work

3). ditto

4). Have you looked into the Menzerna polishes or Optimum polishes? I haven't used the new Optimum compound or their new Polish but hear they are good. The Menz polishes I've used SIP and it works great. Their other polishes I hear are great.

5). For a pre wax polish I have used Optimum Poli Seal and I like the way it works. I have seen someone use Menz final polish I think, and that was great as well. Oh and yes z2/5 are considered sealants.

6). It is all preference. I have sealants and waxes and like them both. As far as which are the good ones, I have used Opti Seal and Ultima paint gaurd plus, Jeff Werkstatt, and zaino. I use OS and UPGP all the time. another "what you like better".

7). The only one I have or used out of those is Concours from Zymol. I love it. Yes you can layer it just not right away I don't think. I believe there is a cure time to it.

8). there you go



Yes the PC 7424 is the same machine at those places, some might give you other things with it like pads etc. Try the LC CCS pads, they work great. get a few in each color you think you'll need. If the swirls are terrible get some cutting pads, if not too bad get some heavy-light polishing etc.

Don't worry about the long post, for glossy wettness I just used Danase Wet Glaze the other day and I was BLOWN AWAY!!!! There are a few posts with it and others have had good luck with it.

 

[Accumulator]

RonMexico- Welcome to Autopia!



I'd greatly simplify your proposed course of action, at least until you see how it goes and develop a feel for this stuff.

Course of Action:

1.) wash - I have Meg Gold Class,

OK, it's not a *great* shampoo but it's OK. Much more important is developing a good wash technique so you don't reintroduct new marring.

2.) clay bar - can get Clay Magic and Meguirs Smooth Surface locally. Have read good reviews about Griots Clay and Zaino Z18. have used Mothers california gold but am not a fan of it. Preferences?

As best I can tell the Mother's and Griot's are the same thing. I'd go with ClayMagic Blue.

3.) Wash again

.



OK, see if it's necessary; depends how cleanly the clay/lube residue buffs off.

4.) Scratch and Swirl Remover - The vehicle condition is not horrible by any means, but she needs some TLC. What product(s) to use on a black vehicle? Sonus SFX-1, Sonus Scratch Removal, Sonus SFX2, Zaino Z-PC, Sonus Swirl Buster? Should I layer one product over the other? Any other products I should think about?

To keep it simple I'd recommend 1Z Paint Polish. If you're only doing one polish step you probably won't get all the marring out, but you will reduce it and the truck will look a lot better. The 1Z leaves wax behind so if you're pooped by the time you finish polishing you can leave the rest go until after the next wash.



An alternative would be Meguiar's #80 or their new M205, but if you use the 205 you'll have to keep working and apply wax as it doesn't leave stuff behind like the 1Z. #80 leaves a *little* something behind but I'd apply the wax to make sure things are protected. Eh...I'd just order some 1Z so you have the option of quitting.



Trying to do only *one* polishing step makes this tricky as it generally takes a progression of different polishes (aggressive than milder) to get good results. But this will be a big enough job just doing one polish step.



If you want to do two polishing steps I can recommend products that'll be pretty user-friendly but [repeat lecture about keeping it simple].



The choice of polish depends more on the paint (hard/soft, yours is almost certainly medium) and its condition (severity of marring) than the color..most everything is clearcoated these days and clear is clear no matter what it's over (it's just that black shows flaws more than lighter colors).

5.) Pre-wax polish. Thinking of picking up the Klass AIO and using it in this step. Should I use Zaino Z2 or Z5 instead or is this a matter of preference? Are the Klass AIO and Z2/Z5 considered sealants or work like sealants?

The KAIO and the Z2/5 are very different; the KAIO is a paint cleaner and the Zaino are replacements for wax. The Zaino are sealants and while the KAIO leaves a *little* something behind it's not significant enough to even think about.



I'd skip this step entirely.

6.) Sealant. Should I use one and what is a good one? Do you use a sealant and a wax or does the wax act like a sealant? Please see questions in step 5.

You can use both but I wouldn't bother. I use either one or the other and I only use sealants on paints that I can get/keep basically 100% perfect. NOT something I'd use on a black truck (and I have a metallic black DenaliXL).

7.) Wax. Was thinking of picking up Collinite 845 and then layering with 476 or 915. I've also read very good reviews about P21S 100% and Concours. Can P21S 100% or Concours be layered? Would you want to layer?

Layering is primarily to provide better durability, though it might improve the looks a tiny bit. Opinions vary about which products do/don't layer.



On a black truck I'd be concerned with durability and protection. I'd go with either of the Collinites, which are what I use on my DenaliXL and other vehicles. I like to use 845 and then 476S, but you won't go wrong with just one or the other.



Both work fine on top of the 1Z Polish I recommended.

8.) Drink beer, look at beautiful deep black truck and curse because my hands and arms will feel like dead weight.

By the time you finish you'll have earned that beer

Other general questions:

Should I layer on other steps?

Do the minimum. Don't underestimate what a huge job this will be.

Should I eliminate steps?

There's no way I'd recommend anything more than what I suggested above. And I wouldn't be looking forward to even that. I'm serious, this is gonna be a job-of-work.

I am ordering a PC 7424 from Autogeeks or the Ultimate Detailing Machine from Autopia-carcare.com...are these the same machine? It will be my first time using a random orbital buffer.

They're similar but different. The PC is *barely* adequate for this sort of work (it's much better at what it's designed for- detail sanding of woodwork). I haven't used the UDM but would expect it to be better.



DO NOT assume that either one will make this a quick/easy job; beware of ad-copy hyperbole that makes it sound like the machine will do all the work for you

What pads should I get?

For correction/polishing you'd better get 4" pads, which are much more aggressive than larger ones. If you're only doing one polishing step I'd probably use 4" Cyclo brand green foam polishing pads or *maybe* the white 4" Sonus ones.



Orange pads do better correction but do not leave a nice enough finish for one-stepping.



You could use larger finishing pads for applying 845/476S.

 

[RonMexico]

Thanks for the replys, fellas!

To keep it simple I'd recommend 1Z Paint Polish. If you're only doing one polish step you probably won't get all the marring out, but you will reduce it and the truck will look a lot better. The 1Z leaves wax behind so if you're pooped by the time you finish polishing you can leave the rest go until after the next wash.



Trying to do only *one* polishing step makes this tricky as it generally takes a progression of different polishes (aggressive than milder) to get good results. But this will be a big enough job just doing one polish step.



If you want to do two polishing steps I can recommend products that'll be pretty user-friendly but [repeat lecture about keeping it simple].

Accumulator,



I can appreciate this is "full" day, labor intensive job. My main concern with the polishes and scratch reducer/remover is that this vehicle got some very recent light scratches from trees branches after Hurricane Ike hit Houston this past Septmeber (I know, shame on me for waiting this long to do something about it...but it's not that simple in my case).



What 2 polishing step products would you recommend? I basically only plan on using the more "aggressive" polish in areas where the scratches are noticeable and then hit the entire vehicle with the milder polish.



As for 1Z Paint Polish, should you apply more than 1 layer?



Thanks for the advice!

 

[Accumulator]

I can appreciate this is "full" day, labor intensive job...

Heh heh, *I* sure wouldn't expect to do it in only one day But anyhow..

My main concern with the polishes and scratch reducer/remover is that this vehicle got some very recent light scratches from trees branches after Hurricane Ike hit ...[so]..

What 2 polishing step products would you recommend?

OK..that gives me a better idea. I'd get a very aggressive product that'll work by hand and then use a milder product for a follow-up.



Aggressive: meguiar's M105 (new version) or their consumer-line Ultimate Compound. I haven't used the latter but I think it'll work well. Might oughta buy more than one tube of it though



Milder product: I think I'd still go with the 1Z Paint Polish, in part because of the way you could stop and wax after the next wash.



You don't really do "coats" of the polishes as they're more like using a liquid sandpaper. You do repeated applications (apply, rub until almost dry, buff off, inspect, repeat as needed) until the polish "sands away" the scratches.

 

[RonMexico]

Sounds like a plan.



Last night I was talking with a local car enthusiast/buddy and he is a big time Zaino fan. He admits there are MANY other very good/great products on the market, but he chooses to use Zaino.



Anyways, moral is he said he'd let me use some of his Zaino products as a "test" and help with the detailing, which I greatly appreciate and am taking him up on the offer.



However, I may also pick up some 1Z Paint Polish as well as a few other items and do comparison areas.



From reading posts and researching, my mind set has shifted a bit...I was getting to ansy in looking for an "end all" process but what I am learning is this is more of "figure out what you are doing" and "trial and error" with products I feel comfortable with using.

 

[Accumulator]

RonMexico- Note that the 1Z Paint Polish isn't really compatible with Zaino. The stuff that the 1Z leaves behind will interfere with the Zaino's bonding.



1Z polish works well before *waxes* but not sealants, so if you're gonna use Zaino you'll have to either a) use a different polish or b) clean off the stuff that the 1Z leaves behind before using the Zaino.



I'd just use a different polish if Zaino is your LSP, not sure what to recommend as I'd have to rethink my whole gameplan. Hope everything turns out well, I'll be curious to hear what polish you end up using and how well it works.

 

[RonMexico]

Ahh...good to know.



I do appreciate everyone's time and thoughts. The last thing, since I am new to the forum, is to make it seem like I'm one of those guys who asks for advice and then ignores it...



I may just do 1 side of the bed with Zaino and the other bed side with 1Z and collinite and see how I feel. I don't have any problem doing this.



Right now (as in for this "application") I am not in a rush to put stuff on and then forget about it for some time. Basically looking at it now as baby steps and finding what works for me. Similar to your original advice, Accumulator. (Well, you original advice was "keep it simple" in the begining, which this really isn't by doing different products...but I also take "keep it simple" to mean baby steps before jumping in head first and getting into a situation where I have to pay someone to correct my idiocy.)

 

[Accumulator]

RonMexico- Other than taking on a lot more work that I'd want to do it sounds like you're on the right track with the right mindset.



That'd be an interesting comparison between the two types of products, especially if you evaluated them over a period of time.