Self-Detailing - product/technique questions!!!

[tCspool]

Hello -



I've been visiting this forum for a couple weeks now trying to answer my questions, and I find the massive amount of information helpful, but overwhelming. I did read the Guide to Detailing and that helped quite a bit. I've never detailed before and now I have a better understanding. I'm hoping that some of you can provide me with expert opinions on what I should get. I've bolded my products and questions to make it easier.



First the car - I have a Flint Mica Scion tC with just over 12k on the body. From what I have gathered this paint is not the heaviest quality to start with.



The problems:

• The body has some light scratches in one area from what I think was a bush scraping against it. They are not down to the metal, I believe they just scraped the clear coat.
  
• The rear lower bumper has some wax residue so it looks haze.
  
• It looks like the hood may have some slight swirl marks.
  

Besides these issues I want to correct, I'd like to do an in-depth exterior detail on the car. I've never waxed or polished it - I want to make sure I do it right with the right products the first time.



So here is what I am thinking I need to do/get - please correct me if I am wrong in the steps, if there is a downside to the product/brand I am using, or a better alternative and help me fill in the 'unknown' areas.



First off, I need to give the car a good washing before I start. From what I gathered, Sonus Gloss Shampoo seems to work really well. I need help picking a wash mitt (not sure what type/brand works the best w/out scratching)...perhaps Meguiar’s Gold Class Wash Mitt? I've been told that a chamois actually does damage as it pulls damaging particles across the hood as you dry so I am looking at the Sonus Der Wunder Drying Towel. Good choice or hype?





Next, I need to tackle the scratches and swirls. I believe that Meguiar's SCRATCH X is the product of choice here. I understand that this product doesn't fill in scratches, it actually blends the edges of the scratches so they aren't prominent. I'm not sure of the process for applying yet, and I'll look that up on the forums, but am I doing at the right time (right after the wash/dry) and what products do you recommend I use to apply this?





I then plan to polish the car. I read in the guide that if a car is pretty new, I just need to use a paint cleaner with a mild polish compound such as Klasse All-In-One...true or should I use a traditional polish? Again, I'd like to get suggestions on what to use to apply.



I would like to clay my car, but I'm not sure where this falls in...after the polish/before/or instead? This one I have no clue on which brand - Sonus, Meguiars or Klasse. Reviews are all over the board on clay.



Finally - I'm going to wax the car. I've used P21S Carnauba Car Wax on a previous vehicle of mine...applying it by hand and very happy with the result. However, this was years ago and I know technology has changed in the industry with the synthetic blends and whatnot. My upmost important thing in choosing a wax product is safety for the paint, and of course durability. So it P21S Carnauba still a top choice for wax or is syntectic better (safety and durability)?



Oh one more thing - the wheels. SONAX Rim Cleaner Gel R 2000 looks like my choice for wheel cleaner. I don't want anything acidic as I've seen Scion wheels ruined before. Good choice?



I understand that everyone has their own opinions, and I really want to hear what you have to say. Even if you only have an opinion on one thing such such as wheel cleaner...please share.



I plan to maintain this car to look factory new for years to come, so it's important that I choose the right products and techniques. As I said, I've gone through the forums and read quite a bit, including reviews, but I'd like to have opinions for my car in one place. The above products are based off of what I have read so far, but I still have some product/technique unclarity which I want to clear up so I appreciate any input that I get from these forums!!!



Thanks!!!



*Admins - please move if this is in the wrong forum

 

[Todd@RUPES]

When you said "Self-Detailing" in the title, I thought you meant like taking a very thorough shower...

 

[mikebai1990]

Lots of questions, so they may not be all answered... First off, you can probably try reading around, you'll get more help that way.



There are a lot of shampoos that you can use. Sonus Gloss seems okay.. I haven't really used it for extended periods of time. The Eurow wash mitt sold at Walmart, or the blue micro-chenille wash mitt at Target are cheap and great choices. The Der Wunder Drying Towel is quite good, you should get it. However, it doesn't mean that you can drag the towel. Blotting is the best method. Claying is done after the first wash. ClayMagic from Autozone is a good choice.



ScratchX is not necessary the product of choice. If you are working by hand, yes. 1Z polishes are also good by hand. If you are using machine, you can consider a LOT of other polishes. You'll have to search on that, too many to list. From your post, it seems that you are mistaken in believing that ScratchX and other polishes are "applied". Polishes generally need to be worked into the paint and produce enough heat in order to correct swirls/scratches. With ScratchX, a terry applicator is a good choice.



P21S is still a good wax, although not too durable. The looks are right up there, though. All wax products discussed on here are safe, so you don't have to worry about that. For durability, you can look into Collinite, Duragloss, maybe Zaino or Ultima (more pricier). Usually applied with foam or MF applicator pad.



Dunno about the wheel cleaner...

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I'll jump right in at the begining of your regimen. If you've decided on the Sonus Gloss Shampoo, get yourself one of the wash mitts at the Autopia Car Care store. I'm not sure what a Meguiar's Gold Class Mitt is, but it sounds like one of those awful "synthetic wool" products--they are junk.



Next thing to do is clay...and since it sounds like you won't be doing any machine polishing, you need to be careful during this step so you don't create any marring that you won't be able to remove with your hand polishing. So I'd stick with the Sonus Ultrafine (green) clay.



The Scratch-X would be next, there are some tutorials out there somewhere for this product, but it has been reformulated this year or last, so not sure if that changes anything. AIO would be a good choice for the whole car, followed by P21S is "The Perfect Shine". Be aware that the P21S is considered a "beauty" wax and will not last as long as some others.



I'm not familiar with the Sonax rim cleaner, but if you want to keep everything in the family, you can get the P21S Gel wheel cleaner at the ACC store, it's a safe, neutral pH cleaner.



Oh, and welcome to Autopia!

 

[tCspool]

When you said "Self-Detailing" in the title, I thought you meant like taking a very thorough shower...

Now that I think of it...lol that does sound wrong...



I forgot to mention that I won't be using any machines - this is all by hand. Not that I wouldn't use one, I'm just scared that I'll take off the clear coat or do other damage.



This is great feedback so far, please keep it coming. I'll continue to read the forums as I have been, but I really find it valuable to get all my information centralized before I tackle this weekend-long project.

Oh, and welcome to Autopia!

- thanks - I'm surprised by the quick responses..what a great place this is :clap:

 

[tCspool]

There are a lot of shampoos that you can use. Sonus Gloss seems okay.. I haven't really used it for extended periods of time.

What do you normally use that might be better?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

What do you normally use that might be better?

There are a hundred answers to all these questions. When I started here I used to hear a lot of "process > product". It's more important that your technique is sound rather than what products you use. There are plenty of good shampoos. Make sure you use the two-bucket method, use clean wash media and rinse it frequently, use light pressure. Use a clean, soft drying towel (the Sonus WW you mentioned is a fine choice).

 

[tCspool]

There are a hundred answers to all these questions. When I started here I used to hear a lot of "process > product". It's more important that your technique is sound rather than what products you use. There are plenty of good shampoos. Make sure you use the two-bucket method, use clean wash media and rinse it frequently, use light pressure. Use a clean, soft drying towel (the Sonus WW you mentioned is a fine choice).

Ok - learned a new method already - two-bucket method. This makes complete sense and I would have never thought of it.



While I agree that the technique must be sound...I believe the product choice is very important depending on the job. For example, I don't want to use the wrong clay that might be to abrasive for my job/technique - your suggestion to use Sonus Ultrafine clay was great!

 

[kapinnn]

Ok - learned a new method already - two-bucket method. This makes complete sense and I would have never thought of it.



While I agree that the technique must be sound...I believe the product choice is very important depending on the job. For example, I don't want to use the wrong clay that might be to abrasive for my job/technique - your suggestion to use Sonus Ultrafine clay was great!

I find it really hard for you to find anything other than fine clay over the counter. Mothers, Meguiars, and Clay Magic all have kits that include a QD and they are all very fine. They will not cause any damage.

I forgot to mention that I won't be using any machines - this is all by hand. Not that I wouldn't use one, I'm just scared that I'll take off the clear coat or do other damage.

You will really not do much correction by hand. I suggest getting a PC or UDM. It's almost impossible to burn paint with those if you stick to a 6" pad or larger.



Everything else looks good! :goodjob

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

Clay is a good place to start... for the most part, clay is clay, although the Sonus brand is of particularly good quality IIRC. You will want to clay before polishing.



If you're going to go by hand, I would *highly* recommend going with 1Z Metallic PolishWax or Clearkote Vanilla Moose. Life's too short to try a filler-free polish by hand (unless you've got arms the size of my neck, micromarring is going to be a killer).



MP or VM will leave a clean, glossy, wet finish. Top them with P21S for a killer wet look and decent durability. I would not recommend Klasse All-In-One for your situation - I suggest it only after machine polishing, and only when using a sealant.

 

[Bert]

It's almost impossible to burn paint with those if you stick to a 6" pad or larger.

Even if you don't work the polish in properly? I keep reading people talk about hazing due to improper polishing with a PC or UDM. That has been part of my reluctance to get one being so inexperienced in the detailing world as I am. (2 months ago I had no clue what detailing clay was )



So far I am just sticking with more simple detailing - 1)two bucket washing, 2) claying, 3)paint cleaning and 4) sealing. Just last weekend I did all four steps and am very satisfied with my results. The paint cleanser with the yellow side of an Sonus SPF Pro foam applicator minimized my swirl marks somewhat - I was very impressed with the products.



I assumed my logical next step would be to try out hand polishing. I assumed I could not screw up too much doing it by hand? Once I get experience from hand polishing, I planned on getting a UDM. From reading your post it sounds like I am being too cautious.

 

[kapinnn]

Even if you don't work the polish in properly? I keep reading people talk about hazing due to improper polishing with a PC or UDM. That has been part of my reluctance to get one being so inexperienced in the detailing world as I am. (2 months ago I had no clue what detailing clay was )



So far I am just sticking with more simple detailing - 1)two bucket washing, 2) claying, 3)paint cleaning and 4) sealing. Just last weekend I did all four steps and am very satisfied with my results. The paint cleanser with the yellow side of an Sonus SPF Pro foam applicator minimized my swirl marks somewhat - I was very impressed with the products.



I assumed my logical next step would be to try out hand polishing. I assumed I could not screw up too much doing it by hand? Once I get experience from hand polishing, I planned on getting a UDM. From reading your post it sounds like I am being too cautious.

I think it's fool-proof. The only damage you might do is touch the machine itself on a spoiler or around a mirror. That might peel some paint off but as long as you are moderatly careful it will not happen.



I got hazing from polishing an area with a Yellow (abrasive) 4" pad for a long time with a cutting compound. I thought I had burnt the paint but when I went over it with a fine polish it removed it all. It was probably just burnt polish and not paint. The heat probably dried the lubricant in the polish and the particles caked on the clear. I was really relieved because it was on a friend's car!!



I would get a PC/UDM and get the 5" LC pads from Danase. The only one you have to worry about is the yellow one. Maybe a bit on the orange. You will only burn paint if you hit the paint in an angle or if you leave the machine on speed 6 on the same spot AND applying pressure for a looooong time.

 

[Bert]

I think it's fool-proof. The only damage you might do is touch the machine itself on a spoiler or around a mirror. That might peel some paint off but as long as you are moderatly careful it will not happen.



I got hazing from polishing an area with a Yellow (abrasive) 4" pad for a long time with a cutting compound. I thought I had burnt the paint but when I went over it with a fine polish it removed it all. It was probably just burnt polish and not paint. The heat probably dried the lubricant in the polish and the particles caked on the clear. I was really relieved because it was on a friend's car!!



I would get a PC/UDM and get the 5" LC pads from Danase. The only one you have to worry about is the yellow one. Maybe a bit on the orange. You will only burn paint if you hit the paint in an angle or if you leave the machine on speed 6 on the same spot AND applying pressure for a looooong time.

So what does cause hazing? I was always under the impression that it is due to not working the polish in enought and not allowing the abrasives to diminish enough or working the polish in too much and the polish drying up and thereby you are buffing with no polish as a lubricant.



Again, my ignorance of how to use a DA is the reasoning behind my reluctance to get one. It is hard to learn how to use one by reading about it, you almost need to watch someone do it and have them talk you through it. Like I said, maybe I am being too cautious.



Thanks for your feedback so far though.

 

[Accumulator]

Even if you don't work the polish in properly? I keep reading people talk about hazing due to improper polishing with a PC or UDM. That has been part of my reluctance to get one being so inexperienced in the detailing world as I am....it sounds like I am being too cautious.

In that regard you could cause the same problems by hand. If you do some thinking (figure out what you're gonna do then do it, carefully and thoughtfully) you oughta be OK. I've had people from teenagers (young enough to be hard to train ) to the elderly (old enough to be hard to train ) up to speed with the PC/Cyclo in a matter of *minutes*.



tCspool- Welcome to Autopia!



A few sorta-random thoughts follow:



Some Meguiar's mitts are coarse and will mar paint (or so I hear, never used one). I don't remember which ones, but be careful.



Yeah, clay it.



If you're working by hand the choice is very simple IMO- 1Z brand polishes:



For really nasty scratches use Ultra Polish (then follow up with something milder).



For normal marring use Paint Polish.



For very gentle work use Metallic Polish.



Nothing wrong with the P21S but I'd recommend Collinite instead due to its ability to hide a little more marring and its incredibly durability. Also, it's sorta "self-cleaning" in the rain and it makes washing (without marring) a little easier.



Sources: Welcome to Exceldetail.com! or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing Supplies & Accessories

 

[mikebai1990]

I'd say if you have the money, go ahead an get a random orbital like PC/UDM. Polishing will be much easier and you achieve nice results. You're correct about the causes of hazing, but with some extra reading (it seems that you have done a lot, good job) there won't be a problem. I read on this forum about machine polishing a lot, got a PC, and was fine with it. It only took about 5 minutes or so to get a pretty good hang of how to properly work it.



There are many videos online (a lot on youtube) that show you how to polish with a random orbital. I watched some of those videos, and I'd say they're pretty helpful.



Good luck!



Oh, and I wanna second Accumulator's suggestion about staying away from the Meguiars Mitt. If the mitt is called Ultra Plush Wash Mitt or something like that, I've used it, and I definitely does cause some marring. Especially after a while. The synthetic fibers seem to get a lot harder than when they were new.

 

[Bert]

with some extra reading (it seems that you have done a lot, good job)

I log on generally everyday and try to read a few threads.

There are many videos online (a lot on youtube) that show you how to polish with a random orbital. I watched some of those videos, and I'd say they're pretty helpful.

I have discovered one needs to be careful when relying on a youtube instructional video. I have watched a few videos where the detailer used a process that I know was incorrect just from my reading on this site. So I am sometimes not sure how much confidence I should put into the detailer. Atleast on this site when misinformation is posted, within 5 minutes, a dozen posts show up correcting it. That is why I generally rely on this site the most for guidance.

 

[mikebai1990]

I'd still say there are many good videos. Maybe look around for Meguiars videos, you generally can't go wrong with that. There are some posts in this forum with links for good videos, but it'll be very hard to find, I'm afraid.

 

[tCspool]

When you guys are talking about PC - I assume you mean the Porter Cable 7424? So if I understand correctly, even an amateur such as myself can use this without worrying about ruining the paint (if I follow directions?) - somewhat idiot proof? Keep in mind that the Scion tC has some of the thinnest paint out there - so maybe this isn't a good idea?

 

[mikebai1990]

Yes. The porter cable 7424. The Ultimate Detailing Machine (UDM) sold by David is more powerful and is probably a better buy, I'd say.



Yea, it's not that easy to ruin the paint with the random orbital. Keep it flat and keep it moving. You won't be able to ruin the paint. The paint may be thin, but a good polishing still requires at least 2 minutes or so of working the polish to remove surface defects.

 

[Bert]

In that regard you could cause the same problems by hand. If you do some thinking (figure out what you're gonna do then do it, carefully and thoughtfully) you oughta be OK. I've had people from teenagers (young enough to be hard to train ) to the elderly (old enough to be hard to train ) up to speed with the PC/Cyclo in a matter of *minutes*.

How do you know when the polish has been fully broken down? By its appearance? The video I watched it looked like the polish started out cloudy and got clearer and clearer as the detailer kept working the PC on the paint. I assume once the polish is clear your finished?