Sealant wearing off after one wash?

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xxplosive

New member
Hey all! For my first post I just want start off by saying that Autopia has been an amazing resource for me as I've learned how to properly detail my car. I finally worked up the courage to put my PC and detailing accessories to use last week and polished my black Audi A3 to a brilliant finish. Here is what products I used and in what order:



1. Pinnacle Clay Bar

2. XMT Intermediate Swirl Remover #3 w/ Orange LC Pad

3. XMT Carnauba Finishing Glaze w/ Blue LC Pad

4. Poorboys EX-P Pure Sealant w/ White LC Pad, left on for 15 min before removal



So far I've been happy with the results, but...



After washing the car today, I noticed that the water didn't seem to bead off as effectively compared to right after I detailed the car. The body also seems to have lost its glossy feel when I run a MF towel/finger lightly across the surface. All of this makes me think that the sealant has prematurely worn off, but how?



If I had to throw out a guess, I'm thinking the fact that I applied a glaze before the sealant might have affected the sealant's ability to fully bond to the paint. From what I'm reading the sealant needs to be applied onto bare, uncontaminated paint in order to bond effectively. Am I on the right track here? If this is the case what would be the best course of action to reapply the sealant? Would re-claying the car be beneficial?



Sorry for the wall of text, but I just want to make sure I'm not doing something horribly wrong. ;)
 
Different people seem to have different results with EX-P, but my experience is about the same as yours, it doesn't last for spit. I'm not really familiar with that XMT Carnauba Finishing Glaze, and it doesn't sound like it would be beneficial to sealant bonding, but I sure didn't use that under my EX-P and my slickness was gone after the first wash, as well.
 
What would be a better alternative to maintain that glossy feel? Is there a different brand of sealant that can get the job done or would I be better off just applying a wax?
 
First off I would add a step. After the XMT#3 w/a orange pad. I would move to the XMT#2 with a white pad. If you don't have the #2 then use the white pad again with the #3. When applying your sealant, use the blue pad, not the white. The white will leave marring, espeacially with a black car.



Ideally you would use XMT#3 w/a orange pad, XMT#2 w/a hite pad, then XMT#1 with a gray pad. Or XMT#3 w/a white pad, and XMT #2 w/a gray pad.
 
xxplosive said:
What would be a better alternative to maintain that glossy feel? Is there a different brand of sealant that can get the job done or would I be better off just applying a wax?
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I didn't really catch that you sort of skipped a step in your polishing (thanks, loudog!), which may have hurt you a little. There are tons of good sealants and waxes out there, I just don't think EX-P is one of them (I should note that I have the older version; it was changed later). I had terrible trim staining problems and residue that kept popping up in the middle of the car even though I swear I had carefully buffed (the older version is much thicker and harder to apply thinly/evenly).



OTOH, many people swear by EX-P and say it lasts a long time :nixweiss:
 
loudog2 said:
First off I would add a step. After the XMT#3 w/a orange pad. I would move to the XMT#2 with a white pad. If you don't have the #2 then use the white pad again with the #3. When applying your sealant, use the blue pad, not the white. The white will leave marring, espeacially with a black car.



Ideally you would use XMT#3 w/a orange pad, XMT#2 w/a hite pad, then XMT#1 with a gray pad. Or XMT#3 w/a white pad, and XMT #2 w/a gray pad.
Click to expand...



Thanks for those tips. Unfortunately I don't have XMT #2 readily available, but I do have #1. Maybe that would work well with a grey pad?



I noticed some minor marring after examining the results in the sun, but frankly I was so impressed by how the polish worked out the swirls that I didn't really even care. Come to think of it maybe I should have another go at the car with the fine swirl remover to improve things a little before reapplying the sealant.



So would re-claying the car be a good idea? Its been about 11 days since I polished the car so I doubt there are that many contaminants on the surface, but still...
 
I don't think you need to re-clay the car. I like the idea of refining the finish with the XMT 1, skipping the glaze, and trying the EX-P again. IMO you should do 2 steps (sorry). You went with a fairly agressive pad (orange) and a fairly agressive swirl remover (XMT 3) right to a no-cut combo (glaze and blue pad). You need (as loudog stated) to do some sort of progressive step down. I think maybe you should go XMT 1/white, then try it again on the blue or gray pad. Or you could start with the XMT 3/white, and step down to to XMT 1/white or finishing (blue or grey). I don't usually use a finishing pad but I don't have a black car, either.



If you have plenty of time, you can always add more steps. The idea is to start with the more agressive pad/polish, and work down to less agressive. How many steps you want to do, and how much real difference you see in the increments, is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.
 
I just bought some Jet Seal 109 and XMT #2 so hopefully that will be coming in soon. Not looking forward to having to retape the car again but I suppose I should do it right before redoing the sealant.
 
Oh, you should be good. XMT2/white, XMT1/blue or grey, sealant of your choice. Make sure you look at your wash technique so you don't have to polish too often, black is brutal.
 
Well, I thought I should give you all an update on this...



I repolished the car with XMT #2 followed by #1, which brought out a much improved finish. I finished off with two coats of Jetseal 109, allowing 1 hr for each coat to bond to the paint before buffing off.



So far the car has gone through two rainstorms and two ONR washes, and it looks like the sealant may have already "worn off" yet again. After washing the car yesterday I noticed that the paint has lost it's slick feel (especially when drying), not to mention the water didn't seem to bead up as well as previous washes. The sealant may have very well worn off before the second rainstorm because I'm already seeing water etchings in the clearcoat that may require polishing to get out.



Needless to say I'm kind of disappointed. I was under the impression that a sealant should last for months, not weeks. I know a sealant is not a substitute for a wax, but shouldn't a sealant provide at least adequate protection from the elements for an extended period? Are my expectations too high? Is it possible that the sealant is still on there and I just need to apply some sort of carnauba wax to get the right amount of protection?
 
Try a IPA wipedown after polishing, then use a strong AIO like DG501 for a base. Top it with DG111 or DG105 and ffinish off wipe a coat of AW, thats my process and it beads like crazy so far for 2 months. Super slick too.
 
3. XMT Carnauba Finishing Glaze w/ Blue LC Pad

4. Poorboys EX-P Pure Sealant w/ White LC Pad, left on for 15 min before removal
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Did you apply the Carnauba then the Sealant, or vice-versa.
 
A minor detail, but I noticed you applied the EX-P with a white polishing pad.



That may be fine, but then again, it may not.



Id switch to a finishing pad or apply it by hand.
 
xxplosive said:
Needless to say I'm kind of disappointed. I was under the impression that a sealant should last for months, not weeks. I know a sealant is not a substitute for a wax, but shouldn't a sealant provide at least adequate protection from the elements for an extended period? Are my expectations too high?
Click to expand...



I hate to say it, but you just used the wrong sealants. Personally, I've never been able to get more than a few weeks out EX-P, and I've been equally as disappointed in JS109. OTOH, DG 105 is very durable, as already mentioned, as are FK1 1000P, Zaino Z-2p, and KSG. Any of these products will provide you with extended durability. Good luck.
 
xxplosive said:
Well, I thought I should give you all an update on this....



So far the car has gone through two rainstorms and two ONR washes, and it looks like the sealant may have already "worn off" yet again. After washing the car yesterday I noticed that the paint has lost it's slick feel (especially when drying), not to mention the water didn't seem to bead up as well as previous washes. The sealant may have very well worn off before the second rainstorm because I'm already seeing water etchings in the clearcoat that may require polishing to get out.



Needless to say I'm kind of disappointed. I was under the impression that a sealant should last for months, not weeks. I know a sealant is not a substitute for a wax, but shouldn't a sealant provide at least adequate protection from the elements for an extended period? Are my expectations too high? Is it possible that the sealant is still on there and I just need to apply some sort of carnauba wax to get the right amount of protection?
Click to expand...



I've never used the sealants in question, but I've used a few others and IME just because it's a "sealant" that doesn't mean it'll last any longer than a "wax".



The BlackFire I used to use never lasted long at all. The UPP I use on my S8 starts to die after one or two washes. The NXT on my pal's Jag isn't any better.



Some sealants do last a long, long time, but that's almost always when they're layered. One coat of most don't last all that long for me and two coats aren't all that much better.



IMO the big deal with sealants (especially considering that so many "waxes" are synthetic blends anyhow) is that you can layer them. Heavily layered, they can last. But it seems that only a few sealants truly layer this way.



If you want durability, I'd try something like Zaino (which I've never used) or KSG (which I have used) or FK1000P (which I've only used on wheels so far). Any of these, *layered*, should last quite a while. Six layers of KSG will last so long you'll end up needing to polish out marring long before it needs redone.



Most carnaubas aren't all *that* durable either, but they do seem to resist environmental [stuff] quite well. For a durable wax, the short answer is Collinite.



Oh, and IME you simply *have* to use the right shampoo, and some of the seemingly obvious choices are actually quite hard on certain LSPs. One of the reasons I like the rather pricey Griot's shampoo is that it simply doesn't strip my LSPs the way so many others did. Kinda funny how BlackFire shampoo stripped BF sealant and Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo strips Pinnacle brand waxes :think:
 
I sealed my car with Optimum Poli-seal a few weeks ago. I washed the car, clayed, and then applied the Poli-seal with my PC and a finishing pad.



I would say that i got about 4 solid weeks out of the sealant. Its really lost its protection at this point.



The next time i try this im going to top off the poli-seal with a layer of hand applied Collinit 476s. I use the 476 in the winter and seem to get about 4wks protection of of that wax alone. Im hoping the combination of the poli-seal and the 476 will give me about 6-8 weeks of decent protection and beading.
 
Wow, you've gone thru a lot. Lack of beading on sealants doesn't mean that the sealant is gone. Sealants tend to sheeth rather than bead. At this point, I would just apply a good nuba. BTW did you do an IPA wipe down after polishing? Some polishes leave behind some oils that Sealants are not fond of.
 
Legacy99 said:
Wow, you've gone thru a lot. Lack of beading on sealants doesn't mean that the sealant is gone. Sealants tend to sheeth rather than bead. At this point, I would just apply a good nuba. BTW did you do an IPA wipe down after polishing? Some polishes leave behind some oils that Sealants are not fond of.
Click to expand...



Nah, probably should have done that. I was careful to make sure that all the polish was removed before applying the sealant, but I guess doing an IPA wipe down would have helped.



After the next wash I'm going to do an IPA wipedown and apply a couple of coats of KSG. Hopefully 4-6 coats of that will provide the durability I need. If all else fails I'll give Collinite a try.
 
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